Helpful ReplySpeaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advice?

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Beepster
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2014/01/25 11:29:53 (permalink)

Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advice?

So I somehow accidentally (or forgot that I did it intentionally) set my current project to 48khz but want to record the final tracks at 96khz. The only audio currently in the project is a single guitar track I'm using as the bed. It will not be appearing in the final project. Other than that there is only my Addictive Drums MIDI track using multiple outputs (not bounced or anything).
 
So how would I go about upsampling this while keeping the guit track as a useable bed? I don't mind a slight deterioration of sound quality on the bed track as it will not be used anyway. I just need to be able to play over it while I record the final takes. Want to do this before I start recording bass parts.
 
And this won't affect my MIDI drums will? Anything else I should watch out for?
 
BTW I tried dragging the MIDI and audio clips into my 96khz template but it wouldn't allow me to drag drop the audio from one project to the other because of the samplerate discrepancy... thus my question.
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mettelus
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 11:39:47 (permalink)
Hey Beeps, I *think* the only way to do it with active project/tracks is to export first, then pull them back in to a new project at the new rate (http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X2&Lang=EN&Req=AudioPerformance.05.html). I do not know of another method, so if there is one, I would like to know too.

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Vab
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 11:43:04 (permalink)
I also had this occur in one of my projects that Id started earlier in MC6 at 44.1 KHz. I redid the entire thing in midi because the audio records were crap, so now I hope I can just delete the old tracks and change it to 96 bit.

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scook
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 11:51:40 (permalink)
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 11:54:56 (permalink)
Thanks Mettulus. I was going to do that as a last resort but I guess that's how she's gotta be. Not really a big deal with a single audio clip but that would be a nightmare on a larger project. I find it odd that it didn't just automatically convert it to the new sample rate. I've done that type of thing before but I guess it was a higher samplerate going to a lower setting... or maybe it was just bit depth... or maybe I had another one of my sheer insanity moments and dreamed/hallucinated the whole affair.
 
Now I have to figure out what'll happen with the MIDI clip. I'm ASSUMING that I could just drag it in (didn't try that yet) or import it. Samplerates don't affect raw MIDI data do they?
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Beepster
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 11:55:57 (permalink)
Thanks, scook.
 
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brundlefly
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 11:58:53 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby John T 2014/01/25 12:25:51
I've found the easiest method to convert the sample rate of a project is to use a 3rd-party, stand-alone conversion utility like Voxengo's R8brain to re-sample the audio file in place in the project's audio folder with the same name (R8brain does this automatically, archiving the original file with a different prefix). When you re-open the project, SONAR will automatically base the project rate on the rate of the existing audio files it finds. Doesn't get any simpler.
 
EDIT: Ah, I see Steve linked the recent thread in which I posted that solution.

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Beepster
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 12:11:55 (permalink)
That's good to know, Brundle. In this case since it's a single audio clip that isn't even going to remain in the project an export/import won't be a big deal but I may encounter this in the future.
 
However I get the impression even if I receive say a 44.1 set of tracks from someone looking to get it mixed that I'd be better off just sticking to 44.1... unless I guess there are to be more tracks added. But then... well I'm not sure if that is advisable either if the original tracks are going to be used as well.
 
Oh boy... now I'm getting kerfuzzled. I should just go back to my MIDI edits. That's been going well today.
 
 
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John
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 12:18:18 (permalink)
We just went through a epic battle over this.  Again what you get with a higher sample rate is greater bandwidth not greater accuracy. 

Best
John
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 12:24:00 (permalink)
I wasn't part of that argument because I would be a moron taking any kind of hard stance on something I don't fully understand. I just try to record at 96khz so IF there is a possibility that something in the project MIGHT sound better for it then it just happens and I don't have to think about it.
 
Not saying there will or there won't because I have no idea. I just know that everything I've read states 96khz won't hurt anything and MAY in certain instances be better.
 
Just being cautious is all.
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scook
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 12:30:45 (permalink)
Of course it can hurt, using higher sample rates make the PC work harder to produce the same end result. The harder the PC has to work, the more difficult it can be to work with the project. The cautious approach would be to avoid testing the limits of the machine.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 12:35:58 (permalink)
The only time I start projects above 48 now is when I find myself having latency issues.  Otherwise I have not noticed a difference to justify the larger files and processor load.
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 12:37:30 (permalink)
Yeah but my system should be powerful enough and now that I know about the Read/Write cache settings and other resource saving tricks even ridiculously large projects are fine.
 
The fact X3 is actually pretty darned solid helps a lot too.
 
BUT... now that you mention it I'll keep an eye on such things once I make the conversion so a useful post as always, scook.
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 12:46:33 (permalink)
Just as a general warning, not all sample rate conversion utilities are created equal. Sonar does quite well compared to many others. We're talking small differences, but since you care enough to go from 48 to 96 it's worth being aware of.
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Vab
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/25 17:36:35 (permalink)
If my PC struggles with 96 KHz, I'll just be mad.

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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/26 08:55:47 (permalink)
Vab
If my PC struggles with 96 KHz, I'll just be mad.

 I understood so from you earlier post in this thread that you're going to try 96  kHz because you think your audio quality is crap. If I understood correctly, you'll be disappointed big time. If there is something wrong with your audio in a way you can clearly hear, the problem is not the sampling rate. 44,1 kHz is the CD quality, so if your gear and skills are up to the task you'll get good professional recordings with that. 
 
Recording audio the small advantages of 96 kHz can be utilized with top-end mics, top-end treated studios and top-end monitors. If you don't have those, it's a waste of HDD/SSD space and CPU resources.
With soft synths (all plugins don't support it) it can be a little different.
 
Also, many cheaper sound cards, which are advertised to support 96 kHz can only record it with limited features, say, like only one mono track or similar.
 

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Re: Speaking of sample rates: I want to increase from 48k to 96k on work in progress. Advi 2014/01/26 15:49:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/01/26 16:07:49
I am reminded of John T's excellent comment in THE SAMPLE RATE THREAD (God save us all) -
 
"If we want to make good sounding records, we're far better off focussing on rooms, mics, technique, and musicianship (whether technically flash or just instinctively cool-sounding).

In terms of the back end of pres, convertors, summing, and what have you, this stuff even at prosumer level now is way better than it will ever need to be'

And that's what always strikes me most about these arguments. Anyone obsessing over sample rate is looking in pretty much exactly the wrong place."




 

 Sonar Platinum
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