Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar

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jvanbeek
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2014/01/28 19:40:36 (permalink)

Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar

I am using Sonar X1 and will be recording electric bass guitar. I will be using a Fender Jazz with tapewound strings. Does anyone have any suggestions or tips on how to best record ( i.e. plug-ins to use, eq, etc. )?
 
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    Sidroe
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/01/28 20:58:12 (permalink)
    Real amp or amp sim? Are you recording the bass direct into the interface or are you using a mixer? Possibly a direct line off the amp. Do you prefer micing the amp only? So many questions to be answered about how you intend to get the bass in to Sonar. More info would help but I would suggest looking around the internet. There are many ways to arrive at your definitive way to get the sound you want. YouTube has a lot of great recording bass videos.
    There are many ways to massage the sound after the initial recording is done but it is crucial to get the recording chain right. Are you playing clean pop, rock, country, jazz, etc. or is it totally grunged out metal or punk or alternative.
    There will be a lot of different avenues to go in your search for the Holy Grail of Bass Tones.

    Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/01/29 00:12:41 (permalink)
    With out a doubt bass is the trickiest of all instruments to record perfectly. 
    My best results are with this in mind :
    Bass has to sound good acoustically first,, does it have a good tone when NOT plugged in? 
    Technique- No sting buzz, play clean and evenly. 
    Pick ups - Boring Pick ups = boring recording. 
    Next is optional but will up the ante
    A Bass pre amp, I use a TC BH 250
    Compression. It might be part of your pre amp. Note, It won't help adding it as a plug in, it will be to late as all clipping happens at your audio interface before the signal is converted. So the Compressor needs to be ahead of the interface A/D. Or you'll want to keep your level down a notch. 
    Hi Pass filter- yes, easy to have to much low end which is death to all mixes, go easy on the low end frequencies. 
    Always finalize your kick drum track first. Make it perfect. You'll want to crank it up and lock your bass line to it. 
    post edited by Cactus Music - 2014/05/05 22:44:00

    Johnny V  
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    #3
    soundtweaker
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/01/29 01:00:28 (permalink)
    and get yourself a Reddi DI box.
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    konradh
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/01/29 01:17:53 (permalink)
    I wouldn't do much if anything to it coming in.  After it is recorded, you can punch it up, but I like to start with a clean DI and go from there.
     
    What you would do after would depend on the track.  For example, you might make the kick strong in the low end but cut the bass there and let the bass take the 300 hz range.  You may need a 1K boost to bring it out in the mix, but maybe not.
     
    The 1176 compressor in the Pro Channel may help tighten it up.  Surprisingly, there are a couple of good bass presets in EZMIX2.
     
    I am not big on amp sims for bass because I prefer a DI sound, but that is just me and your style of music may vary.
     
    Good luck.

    Konrad
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    #5
    Sidroe
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/01/29 09:30:20 (permalink)
    As stated, a good compressor before the interface would be a life saver. It will catch those nasty peaks before they sneak thru. I have had great results with bass, compressor, interface and nothing else. But, most of the time the recorded track usually gets tweaked a bit with Auddifex GK Amplification Pro. I have always loved Gallien-Krueger bass amps and that plugin is stellar even if it is only 32 bit. The 64 bit update is supposed to be ready for release in February.

    Sonar Platinum, Sonar X3e, Sonar X2a , Sonar X1 Expanded and 8.5.3 (32 and 64 bit), Windows 10 on a Toshiba P75-A7200 Laptop with i7 @ 2.4 quad and 8 gigs of RAM and secondary WD 1 Tb drive, Windows 10 desktop, Asus i5 @ 3.2 quad, 12 gigs RAM, 1 Tb drive, 1 500 gig drive, MOTU 24io, 2 Roland Studio Captures, Saffire 6 USB for laptop, Soundtracs Topaz Project 8 mixer, Alesis Monitor 2s, Event BAS 20/20s, Roland Micro-Monitor BA-8s, and 45 years worth of collecting FX, Mics, Amps, Guitars, and Keyboards!
    #6
    jvanbeek
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/01/29 09:45:22 (permalink)
    Thank you all for your responses.  I'm sorry for my lack of detail as to genre, etc.  I am basically ( no pun intended ) recording keyboard xylophone, djembe and flute.  I also love GK amps, so I will look for the Auddifex GK Amplification Pro.  For recording, I will go direct through a DI into my M-Audio.  I am not mic'ing any amp.  Thank you for your time.
     
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    Jesse G
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/02/02 13:53:19 (permalink)
    I record my bass directly onto My Roland Octa- Capture nice and clean and only adjust the volume and tone on my bass.  After listening to the bass track, I then decide if I am going to add plugins to modify the sound.  There are amp simulators and various plugins that will do the trick...
     
    First, play clean and correctly, then modify.
     
    Peace.

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    bapu
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/02/02 14:03:09 (permalink)
    As long as the signal is clean you can add EQ and compression later. Or, any FX for that matter.
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    AT
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/02/02 15:26:06 (permalink)
    If bass is your primary instrument a good DI is nice.  Interface DI is OK, but something more upscale never hurts.  The Warm Audio preamp has a nice DI while the WA Tone Beast lets you add saturation/distortion to the signal.  Funny, on many styles of music the cleaner settings on the TB are really nice - full and weighty.  The more "colorful" settings get in the way of some of the other instruments.  The TB is what I've been using on DI bass when we record all at once.
     
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    Zig
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/02/02 18:56:59 (permalink)
    Echoing the good stuff above here really: I've found that getting it in un-effected, clean, flat and "non-destructively" in 24-bit, works best. I don't bother with amp models at all, just DI'd.
      Once it's in Sonar I generally squish out any bumps minimally with the most bogstandard of compression/EQ, adding a touch of small room reverb.
      The JB with tapewounds: my guess is that you like the vintage thump and relatively short sustain that would be "signature"...?..., so anything like adding a harmonic exciter or EQ top-end tweaks after would be superfluous.
     For me, a Fender's quirks of often having both its own resonant and dead frequencies(!), would need more of an compression/EQ tweak. I set my Status 5-string "flat" EQ-wise on input, and use half-wounds to get that mid-ground between thump and twang...but I do use very light gauge with a low action: that way, I can include fret-noise and clicky bits to add that pseudo-"acoustic" flavour to my more jazzy stuff.
       DI: my trusty old Sansamp Bass Driver..or just the default "DI" setting on my PodXT desktop(bass amp expansion pack added); I never once DI from a real live amp. I stress I'm just a "bass as 2nd instrument" chap, so ignore anything I say that doesn't work!

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    #11
    brconflict
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/02/04 12:02:58 (permalink)
    I agree with the compressor going, light use. However, in my experience, I find best results going through a head with a tube pre-amp, which can help tame some peaks and bring out some warmth. You might double-track a DI and tube pre, which is sometimes what I do. Then, the only thing else I'd work on is merely playing consistently. It all depends on your project, but let's assume a rock song. In that example I would try to play as consistently as possible. The compressor will be your friend, but don't over-use it! Do that in mixing.

    Brian
     
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    jvanbeek
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/05/05 20:23:24 (permalink)
    Thank you all for your responses.  I find that I am a little over my head.  Can anyone please help with book suggestions, class suggestions, school etc. so that I can properly learn?  I'm willing to put the time and work in, I would certainly enjoy it.  I just don't know where to begin.  Any suggestions would be helpful.  Thank you.
     
    #13
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/05/05 22:45:22 (permalink)
    Scott Garrigus books are the local favorite.
     
    http://www.garrigus.com/powerbooks.asp
     
     

    Johnny V  
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    #14
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Sonar X1 and Bass Guitar 2014/05/06 10:06:09 (permalink)
    The first thing I'd recommend is to define the bass tone you're after.
    Once you've determined that, it's just a matter of having the right gear.
    ie:  Are you looking for a straight DI tone... or an amped up tone?
     
    For straight DI, the Avalon U5 and A-Designs REDDI are both popular choices... as is the Tech-21 VT Bass.
     
    If you're after a DI that includes AmpSim, I'd recommend the Zoom B3.
    The B3 is one of the least expensive easiest solutions to recording Bass.
    The B3 can output both processed signal (AmpSim) and straight DI simultaneously.
    At $199, there's no better solution.
    If you're into classic-rock bass tones, your Fender J running thru the B3's Bassman model will sound great.
     
    If you have the recording space, a nice bass head and cab, and the mics to do it well... mic'ing a real bass cab sounds fantastic.  I like to use a pair of mics on a 2x10 cab.  An SM57 captures a tight-focused mid (great for the attack and articulation)... and either a LDC (condenser) or LDD (dynamic) captures a more "full range" tone.
    Mix the two mics to taste...
     
    If you're recording DI... and you're found your preferred DI box, it's super easy to record with consistent results.  
     
    You can read books and watch videos for ideas...
    But (IMO) there's no substitute for diving in and learning by doing.
    Create a simple backing track... and start trying various options.
     
    Recording via straight DI, the Bass will have extended frequency response.
    Deeper lows and higher highs.
    As a player, you'll have to work harder to control dynamics... as there's no amp to smooth things out.
    Pre and/or Post compression can help.
     
    Recording a bass amp, the speaker will filter off the highs and deepest sub-bass.
    The amp will smooth out dynamics.
    The amp will tend to "toughen up" the sound (when compared to straight DI).
     
    FWIW, I love Fender basses.  
    I tend to not like a J straight DI (with no AmpSim).
    To my ears, a J recorded straight DI sounds a bit "anemic".
    Even if you've got a killer J and a world-class DI...
    Play that J thru an Amp or a quality AmpSim... and it's fantastic.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
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