Matt
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new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
On a new computer with X3d, the media browser is very buggy. Auditioning files, every 5 or 6 times I click on a wav file it hangs (browser - not responding) for maybe 15-20 seconds before playing the file. When it doesn't hang the audition is instantaneous. Is this a drive issue or I might not have audio settings set correctly? I moved the files from a 7,200rpm drive to a SSD drive and it was pretty much the same. Actually it seemed slightly better (hanging once every 8-9 times instead of 5-6 times) but I don't have a large enough sample to know for sure. Here is how I have my drives set up: C: System - 500gb SSD (SATA2) D: Software, Plugins - 2 x 1tb SSD (LSI RAID 0) E: Audio (final mixes, basically just storage drive) - 2 x 2tb WDC Black HDD (LSI RAID 0) F: Sonar files, audio - 1tb SSD (LSI RAID) G: Acid files (what I'm trying to audition in media browser) - 3tb WDC Black HDD (SATA3) H: Storage, backup For audio settings, I'm using MOTU 2408 mkIII: driver mode: ASIO multiprocessing engine is checked use MMCSS is checked 64-bit double-precision engine is checked samples per buffer set to 128 In Media Browser I have auto preview, preview at host tempo, and loop preview all checked. I have tried various "un-checking" situations and I can still get it to hang in all situations. However, with all three unchecked it seems the most stable, it will still hang every 20-25 manual auditions or so. If I follow the path right, the audio goes to preview bus, then to master bus, then out MOTU 1 & 2. Can anyone help me with this?? Thanks!
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dlion16
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/01/31 14:15:31
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make sure the drives are all set to NOT go to sleep or hibernate...
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/01 00:20:03
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No, drives are not set to sleep or hibernate, but that's not really the behavior it's displaying.... it plays a few samples instantaneous, then will hang 15-20 seconds, then go back to playing instantaneous, then will hang 15-20 seconds, etc.n It will hang on 1 out of 10 on average and not always the same file. If no one else is having this issue then there's got to be something wrong with my system we can change or fix...
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mettelus
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/01 02:38:11
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Have you looked to see what background processes are running on your machine? 15-20 seconds is seriously long hang time... if you bump up your I/O buffers (Advanced Mode: Preferences->Audio->Synch and Caching) does that help at all?
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/01 10:49:04
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According to the online manual the default I/O is set to 128 but mine is set to 256 already. I will bump it to 512 and see if it helps any. I feel like some global setting is not right with my audio.... it is very glitchy. The cursor scrolling during playback is jumpy and not smooth, and things I used to be able to do seamlessly in 8.5 like moving clips around during playback or creating fades during playback now cause dropouts and pauses.
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Rodan
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/01 11:11:33
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I recommend caution in building Raid-0 volume sets. If a bad block on either drive causes the controller to mark the drive set corrupt, you have the real risk of losing content from the entire spanned volume. If you have good backups of your applications and plug-ins, you may live with the risk. I suggest you reconsider and recreate your raid volumes as Raid-1 (mirroring) instead. There is a slight write latency overhead as the LSI controller keeps the two drives synchronized, but read speeds are slightly faster as you now have two heads to fetch data - controller deciding which head is closer to the data location. And, if an entire drive fails, your volume is unaffected and available. Once you replace the failed drive, the controller will resync the volume in the background and you can continue working. Dan
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/02 10:49:07
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That is all good advice but will it fix the browser hanging? I'm assuming no one else is experiencing anything like this? There's got to be something in the setup set incorrectly....? I will keep experimenting. In the meantime, please SEND HELP!
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Sir Les
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/02 11:22:16
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Sounds like a complex setup...Why is C:\ a sata 2 state Drive?, and other storage drive sata 3? Just out of curiosity ...is there some bottle neck in that?...is it a factor?...or are all Drives on Sata 2 ports? Motherboard? For the techies...are there issues with Nvidia drivers causing issues with sonar? Perhaps turning off something with that cards Performance enhancement settings ? before doing any hard drive reconfig...? Just some thoughts...not saying anything that is a solution...for I do not know...Just asking questions, may bring more to light for others who have technical knowledge in complex setups. I hope someone can help you out there after... Best of wishes.
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Splat
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/02 14:41:11
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Turn off your antivirus and reboot.
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Blades
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/02 14:57:48
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Make sure that your floppy controller is disabled in the bios if there is one or at least that there is no 1.44 drive selected there, especially if there isn't one connected. There have been reports in the past that scanning the system from the browser for a non-existent drive can cause this hang. Does this help?
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/03 00:41:49
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I will try any and all options, please bare with me.... Regarding RAID I didn't build this computer however the guys who did (visionDAW.com) build computers specifically for this purpose and I have 100% faith in them. This is my 6th or maybe 7th computer from them. I will check. Regarding 1.44 drive I tooled around CMOS for a while and gave up without changing anything. This stuff is way more complex now from the days when I used to build my own computers. Any specifics I should look for? Regarding antivirus, no antivirus to turn off. Regarding NVIDIA, there is an updated driver I am downloading now. I will install and see if there's anything I can mess with in the settings that helps my cause. Thanks all for your help much appreciated.
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/03 00:52:59
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NVIDIA driver updated, lots of new options but I'm not sure what to look for. All of the "3d" settings are disabled and everything else looks normal. Took about 10 auditions before media browser hung for the usual ~20 seconds.
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Splat
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/03 08:25:17
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We aren't seeing others experience this issue, and it appears this issue is specifically related to the media browser, no other functionality. My view is either this is related to the audio interface (driver/firmware) or you are pointing the browser at a file or selection of files which are corrupt. So you might try running chkdsk on your hard drive (but don't do it on the SSD) and doublechecking your firmware/drivers for your sound interface is up to date.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Sir Les
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/03 09:42:58
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Well I had freezing happening with my now retired Sabertooth x58...and I believe a host of issues with that behavior and some other oddness in losing data or tracks from being saved to various HDD from the SSD base OS Drive running the software...when saving, seems it was a issue with the SSD and the on motherboard HDD controllers. So...Some HDD controllers do not play well with SSD drives, and some HDD controllers are buggy...although some older boards have a SSD Port caching setup...it is not recommended to use this for a OS base SSD main drive....If you google the Marvel 91xx or tom's hardware site, you may find that taking this chance with your setup is a futile one. Now what motherboard is asked to seek that info out...or point to it. Some builders may have put this together not knowing about the issues with certain controllers failing on motherboards with SSD drives connected to them. Also some ssd older drives have had bad controllers in them..which could cause freezing to occur in OS and Software. Nvidia video cards I have no clue, but I remember reading something about them on this forum..So I went with ATI. Just to remove any problematic Variables... with which the system I was using had many issues...many, and I was using a crucial M4 sata3 SSD drive for my boot drive on a bad HDD controller now found to be the problem variable with that board...but that is not all...it also may have been, only once I updated the firmware for the SSD, that these freezes/crashes/buggy mouse behavior, and time line movement in sonar occurred, even slow response times after clicking on the play or record buttons, and loss of tracks started to show up...not to mention corrupted projects...most importantly slow boot times with the SSD installed as a boot drive showed something was amess with it, along with usb external drives....and no matter how much I tweaked the system, and bios to try to resolve, and updating the Drivers and windows, the problems worsened. So before you start digging in to this Sonar Business, you should sort out any issues with the system first, if any. Surely Sonar will help you gauge that performance with your system, but I would not do any real work until it is sorted out... Just saying, and not that anything I say has relevance to your problems or system...Just look into it when other advice seems to not address the issues being found to manifest themselves as they are... Some real good techs and software helpers are here... But me personally... I would clone the SSD to a nice 500gb or 1tb reliable HDD 7200rpm drive for a test run (WD Black ), if other solutions prove to be unhelpful...Just to say you checked all the balances and benchmarks to solve for. I hope you put more info out for us, when asked...and hope we come to a solution for you. But seeing into things as in "assuming", two E type xeon cpu chips may mean a server board....?...and after looking into those for my own setup and requirements ...I found none had sata 3 controllers of merit if any for proper SSD sata 3 Drive as a OS state of blissful with those tooted performance enhancement....So I went with Asus x58, but did not research the tooted sata 3 support on the board...and so I had issues...as do a lot of other people trying to use such a setup on older built boards using these faulty or buggy or problematic controllers...and some SSD drives also using certain controllers in themselves, also had in my past researching info based knowledge to be buggy...Some times that sort of thing only becomes known after the complaints, and RMAs come in...SO builders sometimes only look at specs...The real test is to make sure it works 100% with all installed or used gear and software...and chipsets, and I do not think builders have that luxury to test for long periods of time a build. It only gets real work testing after market sale close....with you being the tester....not that this is true for all, as complaints and RMAs usually clear up the confusion when it happens...the bug is usually found, and corrected, and made known to builders through various means of communication....but sometimes it goes under the radar for some periods of time. Just saying, and take it with a grain of salt, and pepper lightly, to be mindful, and do not overlook any variables, by saying the builder made it right....But look into it, make sure is prudent advise of merit...if you feel nothing else is solving your issues....and you have them, then someone didn't do their homework in the build, or something is not gelling with something else, a driver is not working with latest OS updates......or the software is at fault. Cause you will lose hair, and sleep, and such, and possibly more...I believe, if you do not find the route cause and solve it out correctly ...and that will take time, and lots of questions need to be addressed. Be well Sir Les
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Splat
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/03 10:08:52
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If you browse media specifically on the C drive do get issues? (If you have no media on your C drive please copy some over).
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/03 11:36:31
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Sir Les thanks for the response I will look into all of it with my builders. Obviously we are trying to fix the issue but if it happens to be anything sonar-related I figure this is the place to ask. I can recreate the issue on any drive including the system drive (C:) and non-ssd and non-raid drives. I have not tried running Sonar from another drive is it worth trying to re-install? I updated MOTU 2408 to the latest drivers... there was a very tiny update like .0001 to the version. At first I thought this had fixed the problem but I got the browser not responding after about 30 auditions. It does seem like maybe it's "better" but that's a very subjective thing from a small sample size. And anyway it still will eventually hang. The files are not corrupt, at least that I know of. I have about 800GB of acid files that I'm trying to use and they hang seemingly at random. After 20-30 seconds of hanging on a file, when the browser comes back to responding again I can audition the same wave file that caused it to hang with no issues. It will also eventually hang when I try to audition standard 44.1 wave files like final mixes on my audio drive. By the way I was blown away when I realized it was playing back my non-acidized standard wave files at project tempo. This is new since 8.5.... very cool. Though I turned off that option and it still caused the hang.
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/03 13:00:02
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Something else.... unrelated or related? On really simple tasks like quantizing a midi clip or moving a midi clip from track to track or copy-and-dragging a midi clip, I get the little blue spinning wheel for about 1/2 second to 1 second roughly. (The blue spinning wheel is new to me since I just upgraded to win7.) Is this normal for X3d/Win7? On 8.5/Vista these processes were instantenous. What this means is that when I perform these processes during playback I get a 1/2 second glitch/jump in playback that I'm not used to. On 8.5 I was able to edit midi to my heart's content during playback without affecting playback. Normal or abnormal?
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Splat
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 13:02:10
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☼ Best Answerby Matt 2014/02/04 13:15:47
It certainly looks like software if it is just media browser that is effected. I would... backup. I would also be looking at firmware updates everywhere. I would try a reinstall of Sonar. Then I would contact Cakewalk support. Or you might want to just skip all this and contact Cakewalk support who may (or may not) offer similar advice.
Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 13:16:33
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FOUND IT! I'm so happy... and so dumb... don't know why I didn't notice earlier I had inserted an instance of Vienna Ensemble Pro into the track to be able to communicate with another computer running VEPro Server. Took out VEP and solved all of my "sonar" issues. Now I have to figure out how to get that to work... back to searching the forum... you may see a post on the subject from me... but in the meantime sonar is running solid. I kept going back to a "blank" track to troubleshoot but I inserted VEP and forgot about it. Dummy.
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Splat
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 13:56:30
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I'm confused, you are telling me a plugin screwed up playback with the media browser? Well that's something new...! Cheers..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Splat
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 13:58:39
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OK now I get it, the preview channel. I never even thought about it (DOH!). OK one to add to my stupid list as well... Glad you got it fixed... Cheers...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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mettelus
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 16:33:23
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Hehe... so can I chalk that up to a "background process" from #4 above??
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 16:40:43
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Yeah, background process for sure. Alex the plugin wasn't on the preview bus if that's what you mean it was just loaded into the project. But Vienna Ensemble Pro Server isn't a "normal" plugin... it connects to another computer and loads and saves samples and plugins with your project via ethernet cable. Obviously there is some issue there with X3 I have yet to research or work out because it seriously bogged down Sonar. Not just the media browser but editing clips and a bunch of other things. My brain didn't go there because I used it in 8.5 transparently in the background all the time, and X3 is so new to me I wasn't sure what normal behavior entails.
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 16:42:06
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I should add: new computer, new OS, new sonar software. With these bugs I run into I have no idea where to begin looking. Clearly upgrading all three at once is a horrible horrible idea. I was forced to, just in order to go from running Kontakt 5.2 to Kontakt 5.3.
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Splat
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 16:44:40
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Yep that's a good troubleshooting tip Mettelus, you were right to point it out twice.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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mettelus
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 16:58:33
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Sampled orchestral libraries are like the "King Kong" of drive-intensive demand. How big is that library? Despite the speed of ethernet, you are including other piece-parts in that daisy chain, and I would be much more inclined to seek a solution that fits in the same box as the DAW. Will they fit on an SSD? However.... Even saying that... I am sort of curious why that didn't have isues on an older machine... seems almost like the server/client in the new system is not set up "properly." I have no clue how that plug-in works, but now that you mentioned the server part, the 15-20 seconds seems like a "server sync" issue?
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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Matt
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 17:17:49
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Yes something is not set up correctly.... I am just so happy to be able to work after being down for a few weeks that I haven't looked into it yet. See the thing is, nothing was loaded on the other end of that ethernet cable. I had Vienna Ensemble Pro loaded into the project, which connects to another computer via ethernet, but on the other computer zero samples were loaded it was just an empty plugin. So it's not the sample size but the plugin itself. I actually have 7 external computers that do nothing but load samples. 6 of them communicate via Midi-Over-Lan and contain their own soundcards which sends the audio out to my mixers. I never have any issues with these computers, they are rock solid. But they are load-it-and-leave-it computers for me, I never touch them. The 7th computer connects via Vienna Ensemble, which means all audio and midi is transported via ethernet and the audio is brought back into the main computer. It doesn't have it's own sound card. This is nice to have because any samples I load into that computer (Kontakt, Play, Omnisphere, etc) are saved and loaded with the sonar project and use zero memory on the host computer. Obviously something is not working though. And yes I used to run this way on 8.5 transparently. As I said all the strain of the samples is on the external computer. All Sonar is doing is sending midi and receiving audio. But there's more... because the external computer syncs to the main host tempo... and also loads and saves with the project... so that's where something is causing issues with X3...
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mettelus
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Re: new computer - media browser hangs - drive or audio or auto-preview issue?
2014/02/04 18:27:23
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Could it be something as simple as the plug-in on the other computer not having samples loaded? SONAR may be allowing that plug-in to "verify sync" before SONAAR does its thing (hence the hang). Just a thought there, but at least you know that plug-in can do this to you!
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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