paulo
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[Solved] X3 Frustration.......Clip Envelopes...Aaarghhh !!
Ok, so I jumped from 8.5 to X3 a while back. There are many things I like and also things that I most definitely don't, the current one of which is how to insert a clip gain envelope to one clip only, which used to be simple. Even after looking at the help function I still can't do it. I can insert a clip envelope onto every clip on the track, but I don't want to that, just on the one clip. There has to be a way because I've done it accidentally a few times, but can I do it on purpose ??? Please can someone point me in the right direction ? TIA.
post edited by Anderton - February 01, 14 5:12 PM
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John
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 2:18 PM
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Use the filter in the track header to select clip automation.
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Anderton
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 2:36 PM
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paulo
Ok, so I jumped from 8.5 to X3 a while back. There are many things I like and also things that I most definitely don't, the current one of which is how to insert a clip gain envelope to one clip only, which used to be simple. Even after looking at the help function I still can't do it. I can insert a clip envelope onto every clip on the track, but I don't want to that, just on the one clip. There has to be a way because I've done it accidentally a few times, but can I do it on purpose ??? Please can someone point me in the right direction ? TIA.
There are many aspects of moving from 8.5 to X3 that seem like a backwards step at first, but once you understand the intended usage, the workflow is more often than not an improvement. When you select "Clip Gain" with the Edit Filter, Sonar does not insert a clip gain envelope for each clip. Rather, it displays the clip gain for each envelope, which defaults to 0 gain. Every clip is "born" with the option to automate gain or pan (8.5 was the same way), but this is essentially dormant until you actually edit something. The reason why I like the way X3 works is that when mixing, if the Edit Filter shows "Clip Gain," then I can see all the clip automation for all the clips in the track at a glance. It therefore becomes much easier to see which clips have Clip Gain set to the default, and which are the ones I've edited. When I first went from 8.5 to X1, I wanted to throw things. But, I HAD to learn X1 if I was going to do things like keep writing my Sonar column in Sound on Sound. I had the two programs installed side-by-side but it didn't take long before I had zero interest in returning to 8.5, because overall, I was able to complete projects much faster with X1 once I figured it out. Hang in there.
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bapu
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 2:45 PM
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But, individual clip automation was pretty cool. IIRC you could slide or copy a clip and it moved the automation with it.
I've been with the X series the whole way and I still don't like the new way (WRT to clip automation). To me clip automation (especially for volume) now looks and acts like track automation.
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brundlefly
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 2:57 PM
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Clip automation nodes still move with the clip.
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 2:57 PM
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John
Use the filter in the track header to select clip automation.
Thanks for replying John - I think therein lies my problem - the tracks have no header. I know what you mean by looking at videos, but my tracks do not have these showing. I thought this might be because it is an old project from 8.5, but I just checked one created form scratch in X3 and it doesn't have them either. Is this something that can be turned on/off because if so mine is definitely off ? Can't find any reference to it in the help function.
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:00 PM
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More answers while I was typing my reply........so it seems reading what Bapu says that I can't do what I'm trying to do any more ?
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brundlefly
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:01 PM
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Track headers are in a separate Tracks pane. It's possible to pull the divider between the Tracks and Clips panes all the way to left, hiding the Tracks pane.
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bapu
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:02 PM
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brundlefly
Clip automation nodes still move with the clip.
Not in the test I just did in X3d. The clip moved but the nodes stayed stationary. Maybe I'm doing it wrong?
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brundlefly
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:05 PM
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Then I have to think it wasn't clip automation. It's working as expected here. Clip automation follows the clip to different times and tracks.
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bapu
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:07 PM
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brundlefly
Then I have to think it wasn't clip automation. It's working as expected here. Clip automation follows the clip to different times and tracks.
Yes, you are right. I selected Automation, not Clip Automation. DOH!
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:09 PM
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brundlefly
Track headers are in a separate Tracks pane. It's possible to pull the divider between the Tracks and Clips panes all the way to left, hiding the Tracks pane.
Ok. I think I'm getting confused by terminology......... what I was calling the track header is the strip acroos the top of the clip that shows in tutorial videos that has the clip name etc and a something to click on on the far right of the clip which is what I thought john was talkng about - I don't see that.
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Anderton
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:23 PM
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brundlefly
Then I have to think it wasn't clip automation. It's working as expected here. Clip automation follows the clip to different times and tracks.
Confirmed here; clip automation nodes move with clips. Also, note that if the Edit Filter is set to Clips instead of Clip automation, you'll see only clip envelopes that have been edited. If a clip envelope hasn't been edited, then it's not displayed. As to a clip header, you will see the clip name in the strip at the top of a clip. Not sure what you're expecting to see to the right...in fact at this point, I'm not totally sure what the problem is. You can edit clip envelopes for individual clips, and if you move a clip, the automation moves with it. So what exactly is it that you can't do?
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:42 PM
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Anderton
As to a clip header, you will see the clip name in the strip at the top of a clip. Not sure what you're expecting to see to the right...in fact at this point, I'm not totally sure what the problem is. You can edit clip envelopes for individual clips, and if you move a clip, the automation moves with it. So what exactly is it that you can't do?
Ok, start again as I'm obviously not doing a good job of explaining....... What I want to do is insert a simple gain envelope to one clip only. John said to use the filter in the track header which I thought referred to the strip across the top of the clip (which doesn't seem to show up anyway) The thing at the top right of the clip that I referred to is probably me getting confused with midi clips which has something to click on, so ignoring that ...... what is John referring to exactly ?
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scook
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:46 PM
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:53 PM
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scook
John is referring to the edit filter drop down in "C" in the illustration below from http://www.cakewalk.com/D...&Req=Views.02.html
Thanks scook. I see that, but as I said in the OP it puts one onto every clip, I just wanted it on the one. I don't know how I did it, but a few times with clips I have managed to insert an envelope on one clip only, but I can't replicate that as I don't know how I did it.
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scook
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 3:59 PM
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☼ Best Answerby paulo February 01, 14 4:08 PM
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 4:09 PM
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scook
It does not actually put an envelop in every clip, it displays the envelop that already exists in every clip. You can alter an envelop without displaying them all with the edit filter set to clips using the smart tool, position the mouse pointer over the top half of the clip until the pointer looks like this , hold down the CTRL key and drag up/down (also from http://www.cakewalk.com/Documentation/default.aspx?Doc=SONAR%20X3&Lang=EN&Req=Automation.11.html#1292870)
Ok, thanks again. I couldn't make the pointer do that before, but I see how to do it now. I'll have to agree to disagree with Mr Anderton that it is better / easier than before though !
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 4:11 PM
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Thanks to all who replied :)
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Anderton
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 5:12 PM
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paulo
Ok, thanks again. I couldn't make the pointer do that before, but I see how to do it now. I'll have to agree to disagree with Mr Anderton that it is better / easier than before though !
Give it a try using the Edit Filter set to Clip Gain. Unless it's really important that you see only one clip envelope at a time, I think it's much easier to manage Clip Gains across an entire project this way.
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 6:19 PM
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Anderton
Unless it's really important that you see only one clip envelope at a time, I think it's much easier to manage Clip Gains across an entire project this way.
It's not that it's "important" as such, I just don't see the logic - it was already quite easy to see which clips had gain adjustments previously because they were the only clips that had the envelope showing. Now for the sake of one adjustment I have a track with many envelopes showing that are doing absolutely nothing. If I were to make one clip gain adjustment per track, then every single clip in the project will have an envelope displayed. I can't see how that is better. Thanks for your help anyway - I do appreciate the input all the same.
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John
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 6:28 PM
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The envelope will stay on the clip you selected to automate (it will be ghosted). The other flat lines will disappear when you go back to just showing clips. I think what is confusing is that when you select a clip and all the clips will sport an envelope. Ignore them. Just work on the one you want. The others will go away.
The Edit filter is actually working in the right way because you may want to edit automation on more than one clip.
The Edit Filter is your friend. Also the track Inspector is a great friend too.
BTW thanks Scook for providing the graphics and clear explanation.
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stevec
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 8:01 PM
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John
The Edit filter is actually working in the right way because you may want to edit automation on more than one clip.
^^^^^^^^ In the past there were many requests for the ability to enable gain automation on multiple clips at one time. This provides that ability, but only while you're in that mode as mentioned above. Once you switch modes only the envelope(s) you've modified will display as ghosted.
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Anderton
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 9:48 PM
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stevec
John
The Edit filter is actually working in the right way because you may want to edit automation on more than one clip.
^^^^^^^^
In the past there were many requests for the ability to enable gain automation on multiple clips at one time. This provides that ability, but only while you're in that mode as mentioned above. Once you switch modes only the envelope(s) you've modified will display as ghosted.
Thanks for explaining that better than I did... 
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John
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 10:03 PM
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One of the very best things about this forum we all get by with a little help from our friends. Thanks Steve.
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stevec
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 01, 14 10:51 PM
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Hey, just glad to help when I can.
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paulo
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Re: X3 Frustration............Clip Envelopes......Aaarghhh !!
February 02, 14 6:51 AM
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John
The envelope will stay on the clip you selected to automate (it will be ghosted). The other flat lines will disappear when you go back to just showing clips. I think what is confusing is that when you select a clip and all the clips will sport an envelope. Ignore them. Just work on the one you want. The others will go away.
The Edit filter is actually working in the right way because you may want to edit automation on more than one clip.
The Edit Filter is your friend. Also the track Inspector is a great friend too.
Thanks, I understand now. Still prefer the way it was though.
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