Helpful ReplyOdd time signatures - length of MIDI measures in Sonar

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Garry Stubbs
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2014/02/02 19:47:28 (permalink)

Odd time signatures - length of MIDI measures in Sonar

So, I am writing / composing a new track in X3d with an odd time signature. I amend the time signature in X3. In this case 9/8 time, although I have checked this out with other odd time signatures. I listen to the metronome and I get the expected nine 8th notes with the accent on note 1 as the now time passes over the start of each measure. To get a scratch track down, and to edit for the final track, I am dropping 9/8 midi grooves from my Superior Drummer interface into the Sonar X3 drum MIDI track. I have odd time signature libraries from reputable sources which are, Toontrack themselves, Groove Monkey and Oddgrooves.
 
In every instance, the MIDI clips I drop in, do not conform to whole measures in the Sonar timeline, but instead, extend well into the next measure. When I preview them, they certainly trigger the drums in the correct timing, and there is no blank space at the end of any of the MIDI clips. So what gives here? Is this expected behaviour, or am I doing something wrong?
 
I can convert to groove clip and drag them out and they sequence and sound fine. So, if it sounds OK, whats the problem I hear some of you say? Well, lets say for example, later on in the development of the track, I want to polyrhythmically put some 4/4 time musical or percussion passages against the 9/8 drum track - This is quite common. Then how can I relate measures of these passages to the drum track, when each 9/8 bar is overrunning each single measure. Also how can I count measures in the track accurately?
 
Put a marker in after 32 9/8 measures to create a 4/4 solo (amending the time signature to 4/4 at the boundary of measure 33 as you would expect) for example, but the 32 measures have played out to, say measure 66 or 67 in the timeline ? What gives?
 
Remember, I have set the time signature correctly, so why are MIDI clips in the same timing not simply occupying whole measures whether they are 1, 2 or 4 bar clips, like regular 4/4 time clips do?
 
Some enlightenment to restore my time signature zen would be very welcome on this


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Sonar Platinum 64-bit: Q6600 8Gb Win7 64-bit: KRK Monitors: ART MPA PRO VLA ii preamp: 3 x 500Gb internal SATA disks: Superior Drummer2: GPO4: Realstrat: Saxlab: Rapture: Dimension Pro: Ozone 4: Edirol SPS-660: PCR-500 MIDI controller: Korg PadKontrol: Fender / Gibson / Yamaha / Ibanez guitars:Guitar Rig 5: Dual 22" Monitors: Mapex Drums, Sabian AAX cymbals: Alesis DM5 Pro Kit: SE Electronics and Shure Mics: Mathmos Lava Lamp (40W)
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Odd time signatures - length of MIDI measures in Sonar 2014/02/02 20:54:59 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby The Kiosk Project 2014/02/03 05:09:14
Odd meters are not handled in Sonar very well at all.  It likes nothing but quarter notes for the meter base.
 
I wish I had some sort of answer for your predicament.  I have begged and pleaded with the Cakewalk folks to address the ability to enter things in odd meters, to no avail.
 
Even if I at some point, become the last man standing in the world of prog/fusion, I will NEVER surrender the 1/8th-note meter base as a hopeful Sonar inclusion!  :)
 
Bob Bone
 

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Garry Stubbs
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Re: Odd time signatures - length of MIDI measures in Sonar 2014/02/03 05:19:44 (permalink)
Thanks Bob, if I listen to the metronome set at 9/8 time, it appears to play correctly play 9 notes per measure, with the accent on the 1st beat of each measure as expected. Are you saying that Sonar is actually internalising this as 9 QUARTER notes per measure, rather than 8th notes? This would explain why single measure MIDI grooves prepared by third parties in odd time sigs are a different length than what Sonar expects, because it is seeing each division in the groove as a quarter note rather than an eighth note, and so nine (wrongly interpreted) quarter notes occupy just under 2 measures (not over 2 measures, as it would with 4/4 time). This is a bit of a dogs dinner. Anyone else have experience of this? Workarounds etc? 


https://soundcloud.com/garry-kiosk
Sonar Platinum 64-bit: Q6600 8Gb Win7 64-bit: KRK Monitors: ART MPA PRO VLA ii preamp: 3 x 500Gb internal SATA disks: Superior Drummer2: GPO4: Realstrat: Saxlab: Rapture: Dimension Pro: Ozone 4: Edirol SPS-660: PCR-500 MIDI controller: Korg PadKontrol: Fender / Gibson / Yamaha / Ibanez guitars:Guitar Rig 5: Dual 22" Monitors: Mapex Drums, Sabian AAX cymbals: Alesis DM5 Pro Kit: SE Electronics and Shure Mics: Mathmos Lava Lamp (40W)
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