cowboydan
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Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
I have been searching all over the web for this info. What I would like to do is convert a stereo track into 2 mono tracks where one mono track is the left side of the stereo track and the other one is the right side. I want to do this because I want to see the difference in panning left and right with separate mono tracks. The stereo track only has one pan knob which I think is a balance knob and not a pan knob. I believe that this will make a lot of difference as far as panning goes. Does anyone know how to do this in Sonar?
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Jeff Evans
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/05 13:49:47
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Unless you really want to process the sides or two mono tracks differently you don't have to do that. Use the Channel Tools plug in instead. It gives you that same functionality.
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scook
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/05 13:55:50
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☼ Best Answerby cowboydan 2014/02/05 16:04:38
Select the track From the Tracks menu in the Track view, select "Bounce to Tracks(s)" In the "Bounce to Tracks" dialog set "Source Category" to Tracks set "Channel Format" to "Split Mono"
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brundlefly
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/05 13:56:17
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Channel Tools may be the preferred solution as Jeff suggests, but to answer the question, bounce the track and choose Split Mono under Channel Format.
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cowboydan
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/05 14:35:58
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Thanks everyone. I just got tired of looking at the reference manual trying to find it. Channel tools is easier, but once I have something in Sonar that I should be able to do I keep going until I can get it done. The whole thing is is that I think the pan pot on a stereo track is more of a balance pot and cannot work as a pan pot. The channel tools plugin is a great work around, but I would rather see a stereo track with 2 pan pots that I can use to put left and right where I want them without using extra plugins.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 02:11:59
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Essentially, the 2 main sliders on the Channel Tools plug act as separate Left/Right panning controls, so you won't gain anything from doing a split mono bounce other than the ability to apply different processing to the 2 channels
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cowboydan
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 08:15:49
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Bristol_Jonesey Essentially, the 2 main sliders on the Channel Tools plug act as separate Left/Right panning controls, so you won't gain anything from doing a split mono bounce other than the ability to apply different processing to the 2 channels
If I used Channel Tools on the stereo track, You would be right. If I dont use channel tools, when I bounce the stereo track in split mono I have a pan pot on both mono tracks and wouldnt need the channel tools vst at all. If this could be done in Sonar getting 2 pan pots on the stereo tracks, for me this would be easier. This was a design choice by cakewalk to use a "balance pot"on stereo tracks instead of 2 pan pots.
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rontarrant
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 08:31:57
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I've used the Bounce > Split Mono technique when double-miking my guitar. The way my Mackie 402-VLZ3 mixer is set up, the first two channels can be linked together as a single stereo channel, so I take advantage of that to record with an AT-2020 and a Shure PG -48 (the Shure pointed at the sound hole, the AT pointed at the body/neck junction). Even though one is dynamic and the other a condenser, this works even though phantom power is either on for both channels or off for both channels on the Mackie. Apparently, a dynamic mike--if connected using a proper XLR cable--ignores the phantom power or it gets bled off to ground or some-such thing. Whatever; it works and doesn't destroy the mike which is all that matters to me. Of course, this results in a stereo track in Sonar which I then Bounce > Split Mono.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 13:18:46
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It need not result in a stereo track Ron, just point your mics/interface inputs to 2 mono tracks yes?
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Cactus Music
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 13:54:28
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It is the preferred method of most engineers to always use mono tracks, even when recording a stereo pair of mikes. It will always give you more control of your mix. About the only logical place for a stereo track is pre recorded music, a stereo effect processor or a stereo synth. But even those could be 2 mono tracks panned hard L/R. I'm struggling with this issue as my new Scarlett interface seems to revert to a stereo pair everytime I insert a new audio track or try to re do an old track. I'll set it to 1 left mono, start recording and it's stereo?? and have to re set it again...One thing learned is Sonar hates changing interfaces mid session..
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bitflipper
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 15:44:23
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cowboydan ...I think the pan pot on a stereo track is more of a balance pot and cannot work as a pan pot. The channel tools plugin is a great work around, but I would rather see a stereo track with 2 pan pots that I can use to put left and right where I want them without using extra plugins.
This is exactly correct; the pan slider is a balance control like the "balance" knob on your stereo. It simply changes the volume of each channel inversely and will not effect the perception of position in quite the same way that you hear with mono tracks. That's not a design defect, it's just that panning in the traditional sense has no meaning on a stereo track where the two channels are fixed at hard left and right. What the Channel Tools plugin does is to treat each channel as if it was a mono track, bleeding some of the left into the right and vice versa the same way a mono track is panned. Some DAWs do indeed offer dual-pan controls for stereo tracks. If you have Superior Drummer, take a look at its mixer for an example. This gives more precise control, at the expense of some convenience. What it will not do is make the left sound "more left" and the right "more right", since your starting point in a stereo track is already hard-left and hard-right. The advantage of split-mono over using Channel Tools is that the left and right signals are now completely independent of one another and may be effected and routed separately. This can open up some interesting possibilities with delays and reverbs such as panning a reverb send to the opposite side or delaying one side of a reverb effect but not the other. You can also EQ left and right separately even if you don't have an EQ that can do that to a stereo signal, which is useful for adding width. I use Channel Tools on almost every stereo track. Say you have a luscious pad coming out of a synth that makes good use of internal panning to give movement and texture (Omnisphere's famous for that). But you don't want it to occupy the whole panorama, or need to balance it against a similar texture that's also in the mix. Channel Tools lets you move the pad(s) to one side while preserving the effect of the moving modulation within the patch. This technique is essential for any true stereo source, such as a Leslie effect. A Leslie ain't a Leslie without stereo, but the physical speaker is still usually set to one side of the stage. You normally want a Hammond to be similarly situated in the mix, off to one side but definitely in stereo.
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rontarrant
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 20:23:40
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Bristol_Jonesey It need not result in a stereo track Ron, just point your mics/interface inputs to 2 mono tracks yes?
Of course. (doh!) I keep forgetting about those little behind-the-scenes thingies. If it's not in plain sight... Well... you know.
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Anderton
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/06 20:29:36
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cowboydan This was a design choice by cakewalk to use a "balance pot"on stereo tracks instead of 2 pan pots.
Not really. They're just following the protocol for stereo track mixing that's been in existence since the early '60s.
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cowboydan
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/07 03:34:57
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bitflipper
cowboydan ...I think the pan pot on a stereo track is more of a balance pot and cannot work as a pan pot. The channel tools plugin is a great work around, but I would rather see a stereo track with 2 pan pots that I can use to put left and right where I want them without using extra plugins.
This is exactly correct; the pan slider is a balance control like the "balance" knob on your stereo. It simply changes the volume of each channel inversely and will not effect the perception of position in quite the same way that you hear with mono tracks. That's not a design defect, it's just that panning in the traditional sense has no meaning on a stereo track where the two channels are fixed at hard left and right. What the Channel Tools plugin does is to treat each channel as if it was a mono track, bleeding some of the left into the right and vice versa the same way a mono track is panned. Some DAWs do indeed offer dual-pan controls for stereo tracks. If you have Superior Drummer, take a look at its mixer for an example. This gives more precise control, at the expense of some convenience. What it will not do is make the left sound "more left" and the right "more right", since your starting point in a stereo track is already hard-left and hard-right. The advantage of split-mono over using Channel Tools is that the left and right signals are now completely independent of one another and may be effected and routed separately. This can open up some interesting possibilities with delays and reverbs such as panning a reverb send to the opposite side or delaying one side of a reverb effect but not the other. You can also EQ left and right separately even if you don't have an EQ that can do that to a stereo signal, which is useful for adding width. I use Channel Tools on almost every stereo track. Say you have a luscious pad coming out of a synth that makes good use of internal panning to give movement and texture (Omnisphere's famous for that). But you don't want it to occupy the whole panorama, or need to balance it against a similar texture that's also in the mix. Channel Tools lets you move the pad(s) to one side while preserving the effect of the moving modulation within the patch. This technique is essential for any true stereo source, such as a Leslie effect. A Leslie ain't a Leslie without stereo, but the physical speaker is still usually set to one side of the stage. You normally want a Hammond to be similarly situated in the mix, off to one side but definitely in stereo.
Thanks for the explanation Bit. The only thing I was trying to get across was by adding that extra pan pot to the stereo track was that I wouldnt have to add all the channel tools plugins on every track and save possibly some cpu room. That way I still can decide for myself how I want the information in a stereo track. I can also see that two knobs might clutter up the skyline in a way that it would not look good. I can live with it. Even with this thread Ive learned a little more about the daw and channel tools so its not a bad day for me. Anderton
cowboydan This was a design choice by cakewalk to use a "balance pot"on stereo tracks instead of 2 pan pots.
Not really. They're just following the protocol for stereo track mixing that's been in existence since the early '60s.
That is probably right except for the fact that I called Cake Support all the way from Holland and that is what I was told from them. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak.
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bitflipper
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/07 10:52:42
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They're just following the protocol for stereo track mixing that's been in existence since the early '60s. Actually, Craig, if you think back to consoles you saw in the 60's, how many of them even had stereo channels? I'm guessing none. The first time I ever saw a stereo channel on a mixer was in the late-80's, and that was on a compact Yamaha 8-channel mixer. I assumed they did it to save space. Stereo tracks are a relatively new phenomenon. At the time Cakewalk first added audio to their MIDI sequencer, I'm sure they looked at the balance controls on stereos and figured that would be most familiar to amateur recordists.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Anderton
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/07 16:14:55
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bitflipper Actually, Craig, if you think back to consoles you saw in the 60's, how many of them even had stereo channels? I'm guessing none. The first time I ever saw a stereo channel on a mixer was in the late-80's, and that was on a compact Yamaha 8-channel mixer. I assumed they did it to save space.
Well I'm not sure whether to say "I stand corrected" or not, because I seem to remember there were stereo channels at least for returns on some of the consoles, but I could be wrong (hey, it was half a century ago!). I built stuff in those days with stereo ins and dual-ganged pots to do the "panning" (balance), so I assume I stole the idea from somewhere...but maybe I stole it from home stereos. Technically, balance controls aren't really panpots anyway however they do vary the amount of signal at a given position in the stereo soundstage, which is one of a panpot's functions. But to get back to the main topic, Channel Tools does what I would often split two channels into mono to do - pan one channel full left or right, and the other to center so the spread for complementary instruments could be center-to-left and center-to-right, at which point I could then plop vocals etc. right up the middle. As to CPU concerns, I think it's very unlikely that Channel Tools draw much as they're not doing any kind of complex modeling or DSP.
post edited by Anderton - 2014/02/07 16:23:39
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Goddard
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/08 05:21:58
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bitflipper Stereo tracks are a relatively new phenomenon. At the time Cakewalk first added audio to their MIDI sequencer, I'm sure they looked at the balance controls on stereos and figured that would be most familiar to amateur recordists.
Actually, Cakewalk only recorded audio as mono tracks (even if one's audio interface or soundcard presented its input channels as a stereo pair(s)) until stereo support was implemented in Pro Audio 9 (along with introducing bouncing to mono/stereo). And it's a bit more complicated than just balance/pan - stereo tracks interleave the 2 tracks' data. Btw, some time back Craig wrote a great article in SOS on using Channel Tools (including how to convert (in a fashion) a stereo input track into M-S audio): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul09/articles/sonarworkshop_0709.htm
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rontarrant
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Re: Converting one stereo track into a dual mono track?
2014/02/08 06:44:19
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Thinking back to 1979-80 when I was mixing live sound, all I can remember for sure is that the boards were stereo. I can only assume each channel had a pan pot, but I have no memory of actually reaching up and spinning one.
-Ron T. ---------------------------------------------------------- MSI GE72 2QF-247US, 12 gb, Focusrite 6i6, AT-2020 ---------------------------------------------------------- Windows 10 x64, Sonar Platinum
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