spacey
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Wondering
if electric guitarist around here deal with string tension and in what ways? Sorry....or electric bassistzzz.
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drewfx1
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 11:29:48
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What do you mean "deal with"?
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 11:38:07
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Now that's a great question. String gauges...I imagine more guitarist may due to tunings. String angles...scale length preferences and str gauges due to... I could go on and on....metals, energy-such as unbalanced/balanced output due to no independant pole adj. etc. Maybe for you-because I think you have a bass with a drop tune...do you notice, like or not like what happens when the tension drops from dropping the pitch? Did you go to a larger gauge because of it? Do you track the tension of different strings or do you play the same set on all your basses? Do you have different scale length basses and have found different gauges/tension work better? Do you build custom sets to achieve a volume output that you hear as "better"? I'll stop...I know you get my drift now.
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Randy P
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 11:45:28
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I've never used alternate tunings myself. I've used the same type of strings for over 25 years. GHS Boomers .009's. I use them on every electric I have (7). It's just what I'm used to and what works. They stay in tune and last fairly long if I keep them clean after a session. Randy
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 11:59:24
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Randy I believe that many guitarist share your position. It's not all about "tunings". For example....a player on a short scale Gibson may find it to sloppy or to easy to play out of tune so increases the string gauge (add tension). Someone that likes to play Drop D may have found that a .052 rather than the .046 normally used worked out better...balanced out the tension at a lower pitch...for example. Maybe string angle after the bridge or nut solved a problem...just wondered what players had run into.
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drewfx1
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 12:15:52
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☄ Helpfulby spacey 2014/02/07 05:57:40
Well, on bass I tend to like higher tension, especially on my low E, so I use a .110 there. That gives me both the huge low E I crave and doesn't get floppy with a D. On guitar, I either mostly use LTHB (RH in Fender parlance) .010 - .052, or increasingly I use .011's on some of the 24.75" scale instruments. I don't like either the sound or feel of lighter gauges. And higher tension also equals more stable tuning. I don't worry too much about the equal tension across the strings (like D'Addario has been marketing lately), but I do look into tensions if I'm contemplating doing something unusual to make sure it won't be crazy high or low: tension=(frequency*(2*Length))^2 * linear density And I don't worry about it in terms of the length of the non-speaking part of the string in terms of bending and feel and whatnot.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 12:40:17
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I've been aware of D'Addario's trip. So you do increase (some strings gauge) for the short-scale Gibson. I know that Hendrix used a lot lighter gauge than most would imagine but his guitar also had an "odd" set (in that there are no sets I'm aware of) that had a closer range G string to the second string to lower the volume. With a humbucker one can adjust the poles for such needs but not so with most single coils. With them I guess string gauge is the move. If "higher tension equals more stable tuning" then it would stand to reason that all 25.5 scale lengths hold tuning better than 24.75, strings being the same...not sure I buy into that. I don't "worry" or get concerned about "equal" tension or tension unless there is an issue I want to address. If so, it's something I will consider.
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jamesg1213
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 12:51:53
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spacey Randy I believe that many guitarist share your position.
Ernie Ball 'Super Slinkys' (9-42)for me, the past 3 decades.
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drewfx1
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 12:58:25
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☄ Helpfulby spacey 2014/02/07 05:57:26
spacey So you do increase (some strings gauge) for the short-scale Gibson. Sort of a recent thing after I played my Epi Joe Pass jazz box a while back and realized that one of the reasons I was enjoying it was it had 11's. So I decided to try them on some of the others. If "higher tension equals more stable tuning" then it would stand to reason that all 25.5 scale lengths hold tuning better than 24.75, strings being the same...not sure I buy into that.
The difference between 24.75" and 25.5" is only ~1lbs. The difference between a .009 and a .011 is several pounds. And a bass has typically tens of pounds more tension. Consider how that relates to any points of friction involved.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 13:25:50
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drewfx1
spacey So you do increase (some strings gauge) for the short-scale Gibson. Sort of a recent thing after I played my Epi Joe Pass jazz box a while back and realized that one of the reasons I was enjoying it was it had 11's. So I decided to try them on some of the others.
If "higher tension equals more stable tuning" then it would stand to reason that all 25.5 scale lengths hold tuning better than 24.75, strings being the same...not sure I buy into that.
The difference between 24.75" and 25.5" is only ~1lbs. The difference between a .009 and a .011 is several pounds. And a bass has typically tens of pounds more tension. Consider how that relates to any points of friction involved.
I'll take your word and reasoning. As a guitarist if I had had tuning stabilty issues I wouldn't have considered amount of string tension (at standard pitch). It'll be added to my check list when trouble shooting tuning issues. (thanks Drew). Along those "thinking" lines there are those that may have a short-scale Gibson with light gauge (and maybe slinky too) strings and have buzzing thinking it may need a neck adjustment rather than changing from slinkys or increasing the string gauge to eliminate the problem.
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drewfx1
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 13:45:55
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I don't know that you should just take my word for it.  But I do know that if I pick up a bass that I haven't played in some time, I'll often find it's still perfectly in tune and that doesn't happen with the guitars. But I've wondered if string tension might be a part of the explanation why some guitarists seem to have endless problems with trems and tuning while others don't seem to complain much, given similar usage.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 13:59:07
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drewfx1 I don't know that you should just take my word for it. But I do know that if I pick up a bass that I haven't played in some time, I'll often find it's still perfectly in tune and that doesn't happen with the guitars. But I've wondered if string tension might be a part of the explanation why some guitarists seem to have endless problems with trems and tuning while others don't seem to complain much, given similar usage.
That's because you don't have one of my custom built guitars :) I have a '57 Fender Custom Shop Strat and so many Strats that I'm embarrassed to say and it's the only one that has given me fits. All of them but one have tremelos (or vibratos for Steve :) and I couldn't get it to hold a tuning...until a few days ago...it makes no sense to me but I put 5 springs on it, reset everything and now it's doing great. All my others have 3 springs and not the common V arrangement...all straight. All of them have the same gauge and make of strings. I refret it, new nut and knew there were no tuning machine issues etc. I have no idea why 5 springs corrected the problem. I wound the pickups for it (staggard magnets) and when I adjusted them is when I started wondering about string tension to address volume balance...which caused this thread LOL.
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bapu
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 14:19:35
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drewfx1 tension=(frequency*(2*Length))^2 * linear density
I thought that was the Am formula.
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 14:26:40
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☄ Helpfulby craigb 2014/02/06 17:29:44
bapu
drewfx1 tension=(frequency*(2*Length))^2 * linear density
I thought that was the Am formula.
That's density not destiny. Where's the smiley face?...I put a smiley face...pftt...forum software
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sharke
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 14:41:12
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The higher the better as far as I'm concerned. I've never had a light touch and anything lower than 11's my fingers just keep squeezing out of tune. For electric I use the heaviest strings I can bend without difficulty. Plus I use 13's (sometimes 14's) on my acoustic and switching from acoustic to electric would feel too weird if I had extra lights my my Tele.
It really depends on your playing style. Personally I think my playing has more character and feeling when I'm fighting with the instrument a little, which is why I prefer my action on the higher side as well. Oh and I hate fret buzz with a passion.
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 14:47:40
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I'm not surprised that players use gauges for feel. I am surprised of a limited selection of gauges for those striving for more than just overall feel. (but I'm still searching) I'd have to purchase three different sets to have a set with the gauges I'd like just because of the limited choice in singles. "It really depends on your playing style" -Sharke And I'll add "hand strength".
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joakes
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 15:45:26
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I think this is whatever meets your requirements and works for you. Personally I use 9/42's, d'Addario make from Thomman. They suit me fine and I keep them clean (using a wipe after each rehearsal or gig). As for using gauges - it it doesn't buzz then that's fine. (For me). What is the advantage of using feelers ? The guitar i have with the lowest action is a Stagg LP copy. The neck is one of the straightest I've ever seen (made in China !). Fenders are a b**ch to set up (I prefer a Jeff Beck height on the vibrato) and my LP is, well, it took 6 months to get it set up correctly. My 2 Euro cents ! Cheers, Jerry
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yorolpal
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 16:01:47
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Elixir Phosphor bronze 12 to 53 on Acoustics. GHS David Gilmour Blue gauges on electrics. I actually had to edit this... I don't know what I was thinking re my acoustics...I just changed strings on two and had a ...DOH...moment. Sorry.
post edited by yorolpal - 2014/02/08 19:19:32
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michaelhanson
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/06 17:45:59
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I have been most consistent with electric guitar strings. For 25 years I played Super Slinky 9's. Maybe about 5 years ago I switched to Slinky Hybrid 9's to keep the lighter strings the same, but add more chunk to the E and A string. Now I am playing Hybrid Slinky Cobalt's because I like the tone better. Maybe there isn't much tension difference between the 25 1/2 and 24.75 guitar neck lengths, but my hands handle the shorter length better in tension and feel. I played both scales about the same number of years. One thing that I do on my Les Paul is top wrap the bridge, it seems to give the guitar a little "slinkier" feel as well. I do most of this for ease of bending. Fret wire is also a big factor in bending. On Bass, my Rick 4003, I used 45-105 for round wound for many, many years; settling in on Ernie Walls as well. They have a nice growl to them with a Rick. Just in the last 6-8 months I have been experimenting with flats. The first set of flat wounds that I bought was Rotosound 45-105; the tension on those was really high, much more than the same gauge in rounds. I was actually concerned because they seemed to be bowing my neck slightly. I took them off after a couple of days and then started really doing some research and reading up on rounds. I began to regularly hang out at TalkBass and read every thread that I could on flats. Someone eventually posted string tensions and rated the feel of most brands and gauges. I settled in on a lighter set of La Bella flats and really like the tension and feel of these strings. I miss that biting growl sometimes that I get with the round wound bass strings on the Rick, but I have a real nice McCartney-esque thump going right now. I guess I need a second 4003 to have strung with rounds as well. What was said about Basses staying in tune better than electrics or acoustics, I have found to be true as well. When I grab the Rick 4003, 9 times out of 10 it is still dead on in tune. If its off, its not but by a couple of cents. The electrics and acoustics always need tuning. It has been that way for me on Deluxe Fenders, Gibson LP Standards, Rickenbacker 330's, Larrivee acoustics, virtually every guitar I have owned in the last 35 years.
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Kev999
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/07 00:51:58
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I tend towards heavy. I use a 115 for the bottom (E) string on my bass, which is similar in tension to my 50 top (G) string. The guy at Rotosound says that 115 gauge is intended to be used as a low B string, but tuned down to B it would be ridiculously slack.
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Kev999
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/07 00:55:21
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☄ Helpfulby spacey 2014/02/07 05:56:44
I find that with the made-up sets that you buy, whether bass, 6-string or 12-string, the tensions of the different strings are always wildly inconsistent. So I normally buy individual strings and make up sets myself.
post edited by Kev999 - 2014/02/07 07:00:47
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soens
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/07 04:29:03
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It's only tension. Just deal with it. HTH
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spacey
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/07 05:57:34
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Kev999 I find that with the made-up sets that you buy, whether bass, 6-string or 12-string, the tensions of the different strings are always wildly inconsistent. So I normally buy individual strings and made up sets myself.
I was curious about the issue and how many address issues by making their own sets. Not many by what I'm reading. So far I think "what feels good" is as far as it goes for many. The selection of sets compared to the selection of singles and the posts I've read has answered my curiosity. I appreciate the feedback everyone.
post edited by spacey - 2014/02/07 05:58:52
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Johannes H
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Re: Wondering
2014/02/07 12:09:00
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On my electrics I use Ernie Ball Stainless Steel 10-46, but I don`t use the plain G string, I use a wound 20 instead. I think the guitar sounds better that way, and I also get better intonation. On my acoustics I normally use Ernie Ball Phosfor Bronze 10-50.
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