mrpippy2
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ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
Hello all, I know there are other threads pertaining to this topic, but I didn't want to hijack, so I started this one. My system specs are in my footer, and I'm using a Focusrite 2i2 audio interface with ASIO drivers. When I go to Preferences/Driver Settings, in the Mixing Latency section, the Buffer Size slider is greyed out, so I click the ASIO Panel button (which for some reason I have to click twice before it opens). This brings up a very barebones Focusrite ASIO Driver box containing a Buffer Length slider which I have set to 7 msec. This gives me an Input Latency of 15.3 msec, 676 samples and an Output Latency of 22.3 msec, 985 samples for a Total Roundtrip of 37.7 msec, 1661 samples. The only way I can get the Total Roundtrip below 10 msec is to set the Buffer Length slider to 1 msec. To me, a Total Roundtrip of 37.7 msec seems way too high, but maybe I'm using a wrong Buffer Length? I want to get my Total Roundtrip below 10 msec before I start using a MIDI keyboard to trigger softsynths, or use any amp sims in realtime, and I feel like a Buffer Length of 1 msec is way too low. FWIW, my buffer sizes in the Sync and Caching tab are set to 512. Any thoughts or suggestions, or does this all sound perfectly acceptable? Thanks in advance!
Sweetwater Creation Station 250, QuadCore, i5 3.4 Ghz, 2x1TB HD, 16GB RAM, Windows 10 64 bit, Sonar Platinum 64 bit, Focusrite 2i2
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mettelus
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/07 23:50:57
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mudgel
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/08 00:37:50
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The numbers on the slider are just numbers not milliseconds. They just indicate a relative increase or decrease of in latency.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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Cactus Music
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/08 01:21:46
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that's right, the slider defaults to 10 and that's what they recommend. There is confusion with latency and it is known that those figures are not what you are going to actually experience. Download this and test your RTL it will give you the correct amount, It will be around 5ms with most modern, well oiled computers and Scarlett. You have to patch your output to your input and make sure to turn off input echo. https://centrance.com/downloads/ltu/
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robert_e_bone
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/08 10:33:57
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What Sample Rate are you using with your interface? And, for whatever the worth, my input latency and output latency for my Presonus AudioBox 1818 VSL are each 4.7 milliseconds (224 samples), and the total roundtrip latency is 9.3 milliseconds (448 samples). To achieve that, I have a Sample Rate of 48 k, and an ASIO Buffer Size of 128. You might also consider trying a Sample Rate of 44.1 k, just to see if that also removes this issue. Make sure the sample rates match, between the interface and Sonar. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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mrpippy2
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/08 13:18:19
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Thanks for the replies, everyone. Definitely gave me some things to look at. Unfortunately, I needed to head out of town at the last minute, so I won't be back at my system until tomorrow. I'll try out a few of these suggestions and report back as soon as I can. Thanks again!
Sweetwater Creation Station 250, QuadCore, i5 3.4 Ghz, 2x1TB HD, 16GB RAM, Windows 10 64 bit, Sonar Platinum 64 bit, Focusrite 2i2
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mettelus
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/08 22:27:26
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The posts above are accurate. When I finally found pictures with screenshots of that ASIO panel it became more clear. There were a lot of posts saying "I have buffer set at 0ms, but see latency of Y milliseconds," so please consider those "numbers" as guidelines (not values). The values listed at the bottom of Preferences->Audio->Driver Settings within X3 are the accurate system latency.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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mrpippy2
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/09 14:26:59
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Ok, got back to my system and played around a bit... I hooked up a MIDI interface and attached an old Roland keyboard controller (don't yet have a USB keyboard controller). Had no MIDI problems and was able to trigger TruePianos right away. With a Total Roundtrip of 37.7 (according to Sonar), the latency was BARELY noticeable. I certainly could have dealt with it. I lowered the Buffer Length slider in the ASIO panel to 4 msec, which corresponds to an Input Latency of 9.3 msec, Output Latency of 13.4, Total Roundtrip of 22.7. I'm not noticing any latency whatsoever between the time I strike the keys and the time I hear the sound. Instantaneous. I'm curious about the numbers on the Buffer Length slider in the ASIO panel. It does refer to the number (ranging from 1-20) in msec. It is called the "Buffer Size" slider in the Preferences/Driver Settings window, but it reflects the number I set in the ASIO Panel, also in msec. Not sure if having such a low value will cause problems later, perhaps when I have more tracks or plugins running than I do in the current test project. Aside from triggering softsynths and realtime Amp Simulation (which I have no idea how to set up yet), where else could latency rear its ugly head? Or is that pretty much it? I appreciate all of your help!
Sweetwater Creation Station 250, QuadCore, i5 3.4 Ghz, 2x1TB HD, 16GB RAM, Windows 10 64 bit, Sonar Platinum 64 bit, Focusrite 2i2
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scook
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/09 14:35:53
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Latency is only an issue when relying on monitoring through the DAW while recording. During playback only, latency is not an issue. This is fortunate as some plug-ins designed for mixing and mastering add significant amounts of latency. It may also be necessary to increase the number of buffers used by the interface to reduce the CPU load during the mixing process.
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Cactus Music
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/09 19:38:35
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Like I said, those numbers shown in Sonar are confusing and do not always represent your actual latency. As example my Tascam interface has about the same high numbers as you are showing but if I run the Centrance RTL test, I get that mine is 9 to 12 depending on other settings. Simple test is turn on input echo with an audio track armed and a guitar plugged in, you'll hear the delay. And this latency figure has nothing to do with triggering a midi soft synths. That will be instantaneous for almost all interfaces unless you are running a bunch of heavy CPU efxs. It is recommended to bypass all efx bins while tracking both midi and audio. As Steve has said, pour latency only will bother you if you try and monitor at the output of your DAW while tracking, that is why all interfaces have input or zero latency monitoring. Sonar adjusts for playback latency so your new tracks will ( should) be perfectly in sync with the originals. Poorly written drivers, like with Creative Labs, will have issues with sync.
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mrpippy2
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/09 22:31:40
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School and Cactus, that's helpful information; thanks a lot! I'll try to have a go at that Centrance RTL test in the next couple of days. I'm mainly a synth and piano guy, so everything is smooth sailing for now. I do plan on tracking guitar with amp simulation in the near future, however, so I do want to make sure my latency is as low as possible. The Focusrite 2i2 does have a zero latency monitoring feature, so I'll have to explore that a little further when/if it becomes necessary. Thanks for the help!
Sweetwater Creation Station 250, QuadCore, i5 3.4 Ghz, 2x1TB HD, 16GB RAM, Windows 10 64 bit, Sonar Platinum 64 bit, Focusrite 2i2
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brconflict
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/10 10:41:30
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I can say with 100% certainty, that ASIO "measured" latency is not totally accurate. I've never seen one latency measurement by ASIO drivers come within 30 samples of 100% accuracy. The offset will help here, and I strongly suggest using that to improve transient material. Even the best clocks in the world won't fix this, and you could pay thousands of dollars for a clock solution that is totally undone by having an ASIO driver that can't correctly measure latency. I believe this is because the ASIO driver only measures to a limit, without taking any specific interfaces in mind, such as FireWire or USB, or the external hardware unit's D/A-A/D latency. I suggest transmitting a metronome out one channel and recording it with another onto a new track. Repeat this again, so you can compare the transmitted metronome with the next recorded track of that metronome after going through your interface. Count the sampled difference (in samples) between the two tracks and adjust in the Offset of the ASIO driver. You can get the accuracy to exactly one sample, regardless of the latency.
Brian Sonar Platinum, Steinberg Wavelab Pro 9, MOTU 24CoreIO w/ low-slew OP-AMP mods and BLA external clock, True P8, Audient ASP008, API 512c, Chandler Germ500, Summit 2ba-221, GAP Pre-73, Peluso 22251, Peluso 2247LE, Mackie HR824, Polk Audio SRS-SDA 2.3tl w/upgraded Soniccraft crossovers and Goertz cables, powered by Pass-X350. All wiring Star-Quad XLR or Monster Cable. Power by Monster Power Signature AVS2000 voltage stabilizer and Signature Pro Power 5100 PowerCenter on a 20A isolation shielded circuit.
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brundlefly
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/10 11:50:34
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A few thoughts/corrections: - Cactus' link to Centrance is the way to go to measure your true RTL. Subtract what SONAR reports from what CEntrance measures, and that's your Manual Offset. But it only corrects recording (i.e. Input) latency after the fact and has no bearing on real-time latency. - Buffer size affects outbound latency, and outbound latency will affect soft synths. - Latency also includes A/D/A conversion and input bus latency, and this is generally the largest part of what the driver doesn't report. This typically adds about .5ms each way, and is why manual offsets are often on the order of 40-50 samples, though higher is common (especially for USB2 interfaces), and lower is possible if the driver programmer accounts for it. - Soft synths are also subject to MIDI "latency", including the keyboard scan time, MIDI transmission time, and SONAR's time to echo live MIDI input to the synth. This can be quite variable, depending on your MIDI interface/driver performance. Typically this is adding another 4-6ms. - Ignoring MIDI latency for the moment, most users agree that a true ASIO RTL under 10ms feels pretty decent for playing soft synths or monitoring analog inputs in headphones. It's quite possible to get used to more latency, but I think most would start to be bothered by anything over about 15ms. 37ms would be unbearable for most. - Most decent interfaces can perform well with an ASIO buffer of 128 samples, giving a true RTL of 6-8ms at 44.1-48kHz, depending on the the driver and what bus is used to connect to the DAW. And so long as the Deferred Procedure Call (DPC) latency of the PC is reasonable (preferably consistently under 200 microseconds), performance should be smooth and click-free for the tracking phase of a typical project.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: ASIO Reported Latencies seem way too high?
2014/02/10 12:04:39
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Nicely articulated. I have been through all of this stuff in detail over the years, and have found good balance with the settings I am currently using, which are noted in my signature. I don't want to push the envelope - I just want the letters I write to make it to the mail box without a lot of grief, as it were. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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