Session Drummer & Loops

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LarryR
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2014/02/14 21:06:42 (permalink)

Session Drummer & Loops

I've just upgraded to X1 LE from a handheld Roland/Boss MicroBR 4-track gadget.  That gadget had a few hundred drum loops and each loop sounded like Max Weinberg.  Consistent, smooth, engaging rhythms consisting of perfect drum/cymbal strikes.  I've just downloaded Session Drummer 2 and am disappointed with the drum parts.  They're herky-jerky, arhythmic, and unengaging.  Were I to learn that they're somehow out of sync with the project's tempo I wouldn't be surprised - they're that weak.  Plus they sound like they're being played by my neighbor's kid (who is NOT Max Weinberg).  Anybody have any suggestions?  Are they're better drum loops available?  Am I missing something in my SD2 set-up?
 
Thanks,
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    RobertB
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/15 10:32:10 (permalink)
    I have to suspect your setup. SD2 should be in sync with whatever parameters you have set.
    What sound card/ interface are you using?
    Are there audio tracks in your project?
    If so, does your project BPM match the tempo of the audio tracks?
    Are you dragging the loops to a MIDI track?
    Tell us what you can about your system. The more detail you can offer, the better.

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #2
    LarryR
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/15 15:14:15 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply. This is only my third project with X1 LE and still don't have it under control.
    Soundcard is Realtek HD.
     
    Project has several audio tracks (both instrumental & vocal).  Didn't know that track BPM could differ from project BPM but hadn't messed with it and haven't seen that problem before.
    Yes, I'm drag/dropping clips form the media directory.  Actually been double clicking the midi file and appears aligned in the track (I set the snap option to "Measure" when dropping drum loops to ensure they land on the leading edge of the measure. Also, just noticed that the drum loops have audio dropouts occasionally and irregularly.
     
    I'm using a desktop HP PC w/8G RAM & AMD processor.
     
    However, even listening to the drum tracks outside of Sonar (i.e. just double clicking on the file and letting it play in Windows Media Player) they sound lumpy and uneven plus - many of them are just minor variations on the same (boring) pattern.
    #3
    RobertB
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/16 23:09:12 (permalink)
    Sorry for the delay, but I'm finally getting back to this.
    I never use the media browser, so I had to spend some time with it.
    You're right. a lot of those loops are pretty generic, and I'm not really sure where they are coming from.
    Use the Program files included with Session Drummer. I think you'll like them a lot better.
    When you insert SD2 into your project, select the following options:
    MIDI Source Track
    First Synth Audio Output ( you can select All Synth Audio Outs later, but keep it simple for now).
    Synth Properties Page. This is the SD2 GUI, and you'll need it to access the program files and control your drums.
    Each group of 8 patterns include variations on the basic theme, plus a few fills.
    Click and drag on the note icon to pull a selected pattern to your MIDI track.
    You can build a fairly interesting track this way. The MIDI track can be edited further in the PRV.
     
    I need to clarify this a bit:
    "Project has several audio tracks (both instrumental & vocal).  Didn't know that track BPM could differ from project BPM but hadn't messed with it and haven't seen that problem before."
     
    You can't specify different BPM for the tracks. However, audio tracks don't necessarily follow the project BPM.
    A MIDI track will explicitly follow project BPM.
    If your project is set to 120 BPM, that is what the MIDI track will play.
    If your audio track happens to be 110 BPM, it will make the drums sound decidedly asynchronous.
    It's best to do the drums first, or at least have a click track set to the project when recording your audio.
    It is much easier to sing/ play along with the project clock than it is to try to sync the project to an audio track.
     
    As to the dropouts and irregular performance, that is most likely the Realtek. It is fine for basic playback, but does not handle the more complex demands that DAWs put on it very well.
    A decent interface can be had for $200-300, and will be the most significant investment you can make for your studio. It will make a huge difference.
    Hope that helps.
     

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #4
    LarryR
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/17 01:02:10 (permalink)
    Thanks for the detailed suggestions.  Will try.
    The audio dropouts are irregular and random enough that they may give the effect of an out-of-sync drum track.
     
    Yes, beginning to think that my home PC rig is only barely adequate for running a DAW.  My specs are above minimum but only by a little.
     
    Regarding BPM, I sometimes run drum loops at tempos that are a half, quarter, etc the project tempo in order to get more dynamic effects and get more mileage out of my loop library.
     
    Nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks the SD2 drum beats are boring.  Check my song "Put Your Hand In Mine" at and you'll hear the drum loops from the handheld Roland gadget. Would love to find out where I can get them for SD2.
     
    Yes, always record my initial instrumental tracks to a metronome.
    I actually moved the files from the SD2 GUI directory into the Cakewalk Contents directory so they'd all be in one place.  Working out of the media browser works a little better for me.
     
    Again, thanks.
     
    Larry
    #5
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/17 20:08:47 (permalink)
    You won't have very good results until you purchase a audio interface, You need the stable drivers to have good timing. I tried to use an on board sound card the other day and I realized how terrible it really is. Hit the GUI drum skins and hear the note play at least a second later.. not good. This is what you are experiencing, Sonar clock source will be set to the Real tech. This is problem. 

    Johnny V  
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    #6
    LarryR
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/17 20:31:19 (permalink)
    Cactus, thanks for the input.
    I'm using a Roland/Boss Micro BR80 for an audio interface for my instrument/vocal input via USB.  Since it came bundled with Sonar I'm under the impression it shouldn't add problems. Are you saying the sound card is having sync issues with Sonar causing midi drum loops to sound bad?
    #7
    LarryR
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/17 23:44:07 (permalink)
    Cactus, you may be right about the sound card.  I downloaded a midi loop with a good steady rhythm.  Played it on my Sonar and it sounded lame and disjointed.  Exported it to an MP3 file and it played back fine.  Therefore, something in my set-up is keeping Sonar from playing the whole drum loop properly.
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/18 00:17:56 (permalink)
    Are there drivers for the Boss hardware? ASIO is best for low latency but WDM  is also stable. 
    Check Sonars Audio setting and see what it is using for the drivers. If it's the Real tech, then yes that explains timing shifts. 

    Johnny V  
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    #9
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/18 00:19:58 (permalink)

    Johnny V  
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    Re: Session Drummer & Loops 2014/02/18 00:28:47 (permalink)
    So this all should work. I think it's just a matter of getting you set with the correct drivers and a little computer tweeking. Make sure everything is set to use 44.1 and not 48Hz. 
    This is important  Download and run the DPCLAT test and make sure your system is not interfering with the audio.   http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml    
     
    24-bit/44.1 kHz USB-AUDIO (Hi-Speed USB)
     
    PC CompanionThe ultra-flexible MICRO BR BR-80 can be used as a stand-alone digital recorder or as audio interface for a USB-equipped computer. Cakewalk’s SONAR X1 LE DAW software (for Windows) is bundled with the MICRO BR BR-80, giving users a full-fledged PC-based music production environment with latency-free recording and a powerful range of COSM amps and effects. Furthermore, the bundled Wave Converter software lets you easily exchange data between the MICRO BR BR-80 and SONAR X1 LE or any other DAW.

    Johnny V  
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