richie2uk
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Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
Hi Just starting to get to grips with Sonar ; As I record individual tracks, say guitar, bass piano etc. all is well and I keep the levels to just below the red on the console. However once I have added lots of tracks and then finally put down the vocals I end up with a distorted song, with the total of the track in the red, but individual tracks all see ok. Any ideas what this newbie is doing wrong? Richie2
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57Gregy
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/15 09:42:31
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Welcome to the forum. When mixing, it's a good idea to have all your audio tracks sent to a Master bus, then that bus output to the sound card/interface. That's so you can control the summed audio and lower the volume of the Master bus if it's distorting. How are you routing your tracks?
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RobertB
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/15 10:09:37
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It's just the basic math, really. The levels are cumulative, so if the individual tracks are at max, the total is going to be over the top. What you are hearing is clipping. Generally speaking, your individual tracks should top out around -12db. Your master bus (you are using a master bus, right?) should be set to 0.0, and will reveal any cumulative overages. I see you joined quite some time ago. Which version of Sonar are you working with? What sound card/ interface do you have? Without knowing where you are starting from, it is difficult to offer more detailed suggestions.
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richie2uk
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/15 13:16:37
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Thanks for that; okay, I'm using an old version, 4.0.1 of Sonar and I havent been on the forum for ages as I did a lot of stuff in the studio over the last few years. I actually dont like tech stuff I'm very impatient, but I know thats a bit of a Luddite attitude! So I really dont know what a master bus is! I looked in the help section but its as clear as mud. I am really looking just for a decent enough demo nothing stunning.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/15 14:49:44
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The Master buss / EFX buss and Metronome are inserted automatically with some templates. If you started fresh or opened just a MIDI file they won't be there. They exist at the very bottom of your track view window and you might have to drag it up to see. It's like a second track view window at the bottom. If they are not there, Right click on the pane and select "insert stereo buss" Re name it "master" Now point the output of the "master" to your audio interface ( normally 1/2 output) Now Point all your audio tracks "outputs" to the Master. Also point the audio track of your soft synths to the master. You can do the same thing to create any buss including the metronome. Just create the buss. Point it's output to where you want it sent which includes, your audio interface outputs, other busses and the metronome. Example once you have a Master buss, you can create sub group busses. Point those at the Master and point your tracks to the appropriate sub buss.
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richie2uk
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/21 12:53:08
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Thanks guys, very helpful, and its much better now I've tried those things. Here is the result!
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richie2uk
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/21 13:58:43
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spacealf
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/21 14:11:47
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I don't think you can post a link until you have something like 25 posts. Anyway, depending on what template you start off with, if starting off with none, you may not have a Master Bus, a normal template will make one. In my version (7) I still can not find how to add a master bus, other buses are fine. But then if you have a Master Bus, the output of each track goes to the Master Bus, and the Master Bus goes to the output of your audio/interface that you are using to playback the audio. But if you do not have a Master Bus to begin with, all that needs to be done, is adjust the volume of each track down until the total mix (listening to it) is out of the red on the ouput meters probably up on top (the two meters - left and right there) which is how it is in my version. You may have recorded each track fine and not in the red, but totally it is like what was said - cumulative so adjust the volume on each track down a certain amount until the total mix is out of the red. Computers are not analog and usually over a 100% wrecks the recording. I suppose there is much better equipment in the respect if you pay thousands of dollars for it, but for home recording that is not going to be so, and going into the red overdrives the computer chips and thus the wrecking of the recording.
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RobertB
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/21 21:32:36
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Yeah, you can't insert links yet. It's a bit of a pain for new users, but it keeps the spam down. Try typing it out, such as: Soundclick(dash)artists(dash)richie2uk,etc. We can figure it out. As to Sonar 4, it's a bit dated, but capable, and stable on an XP machine. Depending on which version of Sonar 4 you have(LE, Home Studio, Studio, Producer), you will have varying degrees of built-in capabilities. It's not laid out quite the same as later versions, but the fundamentals are the same. We'll help you where we can. Work on the patience thing. Initially, this stuff is very challenging, but as you get your legs under you,it gets to be a lot more fun.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/22 00:24:16
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Spacealf Just insert a stereo buss and name it MASTER, that's it. Point it's outputs to your interfaces main outputs. That's all a master buss is. Right click and you can assign it as the default for all new tracks. Because a lot of my songs sometimes start life as one of my old MIDI files, they open with absolutely nothing going on. SO I had to figure out some quick ways to flesh them out into a working project with all the bells and whistles.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2014/02/22 00:25:49
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richie2uk
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/23 10:42:23
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Cheers Guys, its starting to filter through to my dim brain. The end result is much better when I export it for playing and burning on my PC. But my latest problem is that the playback volume in my headphones seems to have gone right down, ( I didn't touch it Guvnor honest!) so much so that I cant really hear much as I add a track...have I done something dumb without realising it? Oh and here is the result typed as a link but not a link if you see what I mean... soundcloud .com forward slash richard-hutchins forward slash chinese-puzzle
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Cactus Music
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/23 11:38:00
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I don't think you have told us which interface you are using. Does it have a software mixer?
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richie2uk
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/23 12:06:42
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Sorry, you'll have to pretend you are dealing with a small child! Whats a software mixer? It has a console if that's what you mean!
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Cactus Music
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/23 13:43:30
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You still didn;t tell us?
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RobertB
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/23 23:06:20
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Cactus Music I don't think you have told us which interface you are using. Does it have a software mixer?
Operative highlighted for clarification
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RobertB
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/23 23:50:53
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Just listened to your song. Very nice. It has an Al Stewart quality to it. SoUnds like you are getting a handle on the overall levels problem. How are you recording your vocals, and that lovely "whale cry" guitar? I'm guessing single mic to a stereo track. Don't do that. It gives you 1/2 of a stereo track, and pins the sound to the left side. Record to a mono track. ie, select Left Input-Mono. This will bring your vocals to the center, where they belong, and allow you to move them within the stereo field. You can salvage these tracks by splitting them into mono tracks. Delete the right side track, as it contains no data. Play with panning on the remaining track, and you will hear the freedom of movement you now have.
My Soundclick Page SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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spacealf
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/24 15:09:31
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I think you can just pan the vocal track to the middle in Sonar. Here's your link for the song: http://www.soundcloud.com...utchins/chinese-puzzleor perhaps if your audio/interface has a mixer also in software with it, you can pan it to middle for either L or R input, or there is a "interleave" graphic on each track (and also a "phase" graphic) perhaps (well in my version of Sonar) that can be clicked on with the mouse. I have not tried the "interleave" but the pop-up text indicates that one way is "mono" the other way is "sterero". Not sure about what it does without looking at the HELP in Sonar.
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richie2uk
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Re: Newbie problems; gradual build up of distortion as I add tracks
2014/02/24 16:12:37
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Thanks Bob et al. I use a Samson G Trak condenser mike with a usb. In fact that is how I came to use Sonar as it was bundled with the box! As for guitar sound I used my trusty Marshall and a Les Paul. I got the echo sound by copying the guitar track and just delaying the copy a bit. ( One of my guitar heroes is Brian May and I find some of the things I do tend to sound a little like that, ie delays and one or two parts fitting together in a sort of harmony.)
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