Time to buy digital mixer for church

Our Mackie 32-4 is giving up one channel at a time. I've been doing splitter boxes on everything so I can multitrack it into a computer. Since I have to replace the house board, I'd like to simplify things and get the multitrack channels into the computer straight from the board. The budget isn't set yet, but the senior pastor has been looking for a reason to buy a digital board (yeah, I've got it good here). What's going to be my reasonable option? Presonus, Roland, A&H, Behringer?

Thanks.

The Behringer X32 series is pretty nice (great sound and flexibility).
Our live sound engineer has been using one on our last couple of gigs.  No complaints at all...
I realize the name might not have a lot of panache, but it's a great piece of hardware.
You can get the X32 for $2800 or less.
 
Presonus boards are also nice.
We have club based clients in Nashville and Vegas using the Studio Live series to simultaneously mix and record the live acts.  Works well...
 
You can't make a bad decision either way...
If you have the budget, you get a lot for the money with the X32 (even scribble strips).

My company specializes in audio/video integration for HOW.  We like the Soundcraft Expression Si slightly more than the others. They all have their strengths and shortcomings. All of them have solid IPad control. The Behringer shines with price point and scribble strips along with cheaper but high value options for good in-ear monitoring. The Soundcraft sounds better to my ears.   Their (SC) preamps are outstanding. Fader glow and smooth automation along with 14 aux busses put this one in front from my perspective. Speaking of in-ear monitoring - the soundcraft with its' 14 aux buss allows for some creative in-ear monitoring options using headphone amps and Ipads. Much cheaper options than going full aviom. However, if you can afford aviom, it's sweet...  The PreSonus and the Behringer are both fine consoles and we install / intergrate a lot of those into HOW. In my opinion, you are in a win-win with any of these 3.

First and foremost: Make sure you plan for the future, this is a BIG investment.
 
One important feature I find, is a mixer with full metering on all channels. With a variety of people expected to run the board, this helps a lot. You'll also have to decide whether you want to have mic cables run from the mixer to the stage, or whether you want to have a stage box and an ethernet cable run to the booth. (I would assume you have the former and keeping things that way might be easier, but it might be a good selling point, because you have fewer losses and less chance of getting interference using an Ethernet feed.)
 
I believe you will find that the Roland system is probably the most mature when it comes to HOW systems. (Has the most integrated options)
 
On the Presonus, it appears that the output to the firewire 800 card is pre-fader only.  Note: Firewire 800 - your computer will have to be compatible to make full use of the mixer feed. There has been a lot of discussion about good and bad firewire interfaces.
 
The Roland system can either record to their dedicated recorder, or through their REAC system up to 40 channels. Hard to tell whether they are pre or post fader only, or either. The schematic seems to elude to it, but their manual is mute on the subject.
 
Don't know about the X32.
 
The Soundrcraft products, will let you do either pre or post fader through a MADI card. (Note: It doesn't look like the MADI card is an option on all digital products, though) You would also have to start with the more expensive Si series to get full metering. The "expression" series does not have this.
 
Beyond that, is having a remote wifi connection to control the board through an iPad (or similar) important. How many gates, compressors, and reverb effects do you want available?
 
If you need to hire a consultant - DO NOT hire one who also sells equipment. You'll almost always end up with what they have to offer and not necessarily what you really need. Again, this is a BIG long term investment, don't take it lightly and don't let board members talk you into something they'll regret later. Churches have a long rich history of doing sound over and over and almost never getting it right.
 
Good Luck,
 
Bruce

I should also point out the X32, can record USB or FW and the Audio interface is in an expansion card, so it can be upgraded, or you can just record to a USB stick that will do a stereo bus mix right from the mixer.

I agree that operations are extremely important and most churches work off volunteers.  But that's why I still recommend digital, especially for the price point.
 
1.) you set the board the way you want, and then you create a backup.  If someone messes something up you load the backup.  You are up and running in minutes.
 
2.) ability to change individual setting on the fly.  Say you have a rotation of 5 guitarists all with different gear, different pickups.  You can save all of those EQ settings to presets and recall them on the fly.
 
3.)  Ability to have compression, EQ, gating and reverb on every channel, built into the mixer.
 
4.) iPad control for when you want to run sound on your own rehearsals or if the sound guy is sick that day.
 
5.) Digital snake makes setup a breeze.  My church is a multi purpose facility we literally have to tear down everything after a rehearsal.  Setup and teardown can be done in under 20 min, it would probably be an hour with having to deal with analog gear.
 
On a side note, yeah be very careful of fly by night companies who will do sound setup.  Do research in your area to see which ones to work with.  Get a list of clients they have helped and talk to them if they were satisfied or not.
 
Sounds like the company you dealt with just wanted to sell some A&H gear.  The more reputable sound system companies will work with anyone, will work with the churches budget and know where to get the most bang for your buck.  They should also do a total sound system analysis for free.  They should be able to tell you if you have adequate power for your speakers, adequate speaker coverage, they should do an audio analysis of the room and make sure the speaker placement is correct, in addition to just being able to sell you a board.   If you just want to buy a board you can go to Guitar Center for that.
 
 
 

mixmkr
Hey Jim...since I've (Chris H) been talking to you about the Pro studio computer, via email... this would be a good "public" question as well... Would the X32 make a decent audio interface, versus something more "conventional"
 
I'm under the impression it's a 32x32 interface...however firewire I believe.

Hi Chris,
 
I picked up a X32 Compact (came with the X-UF Firewire/USB-2 audio interface card).
 
Connected to a fast socket 2011 DAW (4930k at 4.5GHz) via Firewire, the unit needs to run at 8+ms round-trip latency (to avoid dropped samples).  Note that the driver is extremely flexible in that you have tremendous control over the buffer sizes.  I wish all audio interface drivers allowed complete control over both the ASIO and "Safety" buffers.  You can set the round-trip latency considerable lower... but performance isn't consistent (under heavy loads).  When connected via USB, the smallest round-trip latency is 10ms.
At 8+ms round-trip latency, audio playback is solid.
 
If you need super low round-trip latency:
The X32 has two AES-50 ports (An AES-50 port can be used to transfer 32-channels of audio two/from the DAW via a single Cat-5 cable).  Lynx makes the AES16e-50 audio interface which provides an AES-50 port ($900).
Not an inexpensive solution, but it makes a great setup for a Project Studio.
The X32 has round-trip latency of 0.8ms
You can run heavy loads with the AES16e-50 set to 3ms round-trip latency.  
All together, you've got 3.8ms end-to-end latency.
 
Measured the average noise-floor (from the channel A/D converters) at ~-114dB.
That's on par with higher-end audio interfaces.