I was surprised to find that...

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aj
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2014/02/22 14:37:24 (permalink)

I was surprised to find that...

In fact astonished would probably be a better word. In the studio at present I have three keyboards; an old Technics P30 piano which has a terrific weighted action but whose sound is pretty dated, so it's only in use as a MIDI controller, a Roland A800 controller and a Korg X5D Rompler.
 
It's become slightly annoying that the Roland keyboard has a (much more convenient IMHO) joystick for pitch/mod along with aftertouch, but of course the X5D has separate pitch and mod wheels and no aftertouch. I'd really like a lightweight 61 note keyboard with aftertouch and the same quality sound set as the X5D, but with a much better piano.
 
Since the X5D dates back to 1995, this shouldn't be too difficult nearly 20 years on, but to my surprise although certainly I can purchase lots of 61 note keyboards with soundsets included (i.e romplers), virtually none of them feature aftertouch and the ones that do are incredibly expensive and/or heavy as a tank, whereas the X5D is actually not much heavier than a bass guitar.
And, apart from the piano, most of its sounds stack up pretty well by today's standards; Korg have always been good at coaxing musical sounds from limited resources.
 
But the Krome, which is the obvious replacement, lacks aftertouch, as do the lesser Korg entries like the Kross. Even the KingKorg, surely the most awfully named product since Nintendo came out with the Wii, lacks aftertouch. Though it has a perfectly pointless valve (tube), lit up by LEDs so it looks like its actually doing something.
 
Some of the Nords have aftertouch, (I believe) though they are primarily synths and lack decent displays, and the Korg Kronos *apparently* has aftertouch. I say apparently because after spending some time this afternoon poking around the 73 note version, I couldn't find any patches that exploit it, nor did I figure out where in the incredibly complex control system the ability to map aftertouch to modulation, for example, even exists.
 
In any case the Kronos, for its atmospheric price, while producing beautiful sounds, is horrible to look at and feels like some kind of weird Frankenstein botchup, with el-cheapo short-travel faders that make smooth control unnecessarily difficult and buttons and knobs scattered across the panel like confetti at a wedding. Not to mention the weight!. And size!. And the price!. Given the X5D cost around 500 bucks, if that.... and I appreciate how much more limited it is, of course, but I just want a good palette of standard sounds, aftertouch, and a joystick.
 
I'm guessing if we timewarp back 5 years or so such things still existed, so it might be a matter of looking around for something secondhand. Any recommendations, new or used, gratefully appreciated. Obviously this is some weird cost-cutting measure based on market research or something, although Roland still produce the A800 with aftertouch and if they can do this as a controller for around 400 bucks how hard could it be to add sounds at under double that price and still also match the weight of the Roland controller. And yes, I could buy a module. I am leaning to this, since I could then just buy a second A800 which, as far as I can tell, is by far the best made controller on the market. Albeit the design of the software is truly awful (but functional and reliable). A small module wouldn't be too awkward if I wanted to lug one of the keyboards around; still, its odd you can't buy anything with the sounds built in. Missed opportunity for Roland, you would think, since if you open up an A800 there's a lot of room to add more circuitry.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: I was surprised to find that... 2014/02/22 16:09:30 (permalink)
    You are looking at the wrong instruments. The answer is simple. Kurzweil. They make better sounding synths than everything out there. Period. Every Kurzweil, every model, every vintage has aftertouch. And not only that is the most perfect too in terms of how hard you have to press and the smoothness over the entire range it works.
     
    Try hunting down an older one if you are budget limited. The latest PC3K6 is killer though. Amazing sounds, great after touch and just the best. Way better than Kronos as well. They all sound cheap in comparison.

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    Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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    SuperG
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    Re: I was surprised to find that... 2014/02/23 10:06:10 (permalink)
    It's funny how some of the more esoteric midi features have slowly dropped off of the map. I like to use my ancient old desktop MU80 as a sort of touchstone for how advanced things were at one time, even in the face of limited computing power. Not only does it do channel aftertouch, it can do poly-aftertouch as well. And it was mainly a desktop synth aimed at the gamers of the time.

    laudem Deo
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    aj
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    Re: I was surprised to find that... 2014/02/23 17:13:50 (permalink)
    Thanks for the Kurzweil suggestion. It does, of course, have conventional pitch and mod wheels and ideally I'd prefer a joystick - in my opinion a far easier thing to control with one hand, I've never gotten on well with separate wheels, to be honest. One other option is perhaps a second-hand Korg M3. This would be cheaper than the Kurzweil by quite a bit and looks like a potential option. It looks as though we hit some kind of peak a few years ago and now its a slow decline into mediocrity by Korg, Yamaha and Roland. Disappointing, but I understand that obviously more and more people are using DAWs rather than keyboard workstations. But the thing is that a workstation offers real immediacy when you're fooling around looking for inspiration; and if it could instantly record that's even better, because, while, with some discipline, you can get all this working in the DAW, often I just wanna play music and not touch a computer, 'cause that's my day job. I have my three keyboards hooked up to an old Ensoniq KMX-8 8 X 8 midi patch bay (another impossible-to-find gadget in this day and age) and this lets me connect anything to anything just by pressing a couple of buttons. So I can connect any keyboard to my DAW, and/or any of the hardware synths (X5D, Yamaha FS1R and an old Kawai K5m I picked up for around 20 quid from a charity shop. This gives me an additive synth, an FM synth and a rompler without any computer involvement at all). I find this a lot more immediate than faffing around with mouse clicks and then wondering 'why have I got no sound?' which seems to happen more often than not when using the DAW. When I want truly great sounds like a really good piano etc then I'll route something to the DAW.
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    aj
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    Re: I was surprised to find that... 2014/03/16 09:53:04 (permalink)
    Well, I decided to give up on replacing the X5D since, frankly, the keybed is, for an unweighted keyboard, actually pretty good and really the main problem is that, when I sat down and really thought about it, there were really two things I wanted to do something about:-
     
    1. I work with computers all week and somehow sitting down and fiddling around in my spare time with computers to make music is, somehow, killing my creativity. I know it's psychological but somehow it really seems much more fun working with dedicated hardware.
     
    2. I have a great and insanely powerful synth in the Yamaha FS1R, and a rather dated rompler in the X5D, and of course I have the Roland as an additional controller. So the main problem is that the X5D has truly awful acoustic pianos - perhaps hardly surprising given that - I believe - the total sample memory is something like 8M.
     
    So I came to the conclusion that maybe I should get a module. These, too, are an endangered species these days - the Integra being the obvious current option but the price is a touch rich for my blood. So having had a play with it I enquired at the music shop whether there was anything else. Well, it turned out that they had an ex-demo Roland Sonic Cell which they were willing to sell at a price around 1/5th of the Integra. Since this was released in 2007, not exactly cutting edge technology, but the pianos (and sounds in general) are pretty good - this seemed like the perfect deal, and I'm very pleased with it.
     
    I also have the advantage that I can tuck the X5D under my arm, tote the Sonic Cell as well (it's only a couple of pounds in weight and much smaller than the Integra), and go somewhere for a jam session, with all the sound bases covered - and now, as well, I can do the creative stuff by just turning up the mixer faders and playing. I can bring in the computer once I've got some idea of where I'm going with a composition without having to fool around with it just to get some sounds - and of course, you can select new patches with hardware at blinding speed compared to faffing around with Kontakt etc.
     
    Of course, the computer sounds better, but the immediacy of hardware lets me get to the point where I know what's gonna work - the one weakness is that I have no hardware drum machine, at present - and then I can look at putting it into the DAW, rather than spend the whole night fiddling around and getting nothing done.
     
    Given the current fashion for retro hardware with knobs and buttons, I am surprised that Roland, for instance, don't consider putting some kind of GM rompler into their controllers - the A800, for instance, would really be a great little gigging keyboard if it had sounds built in as well - but perhaps I'm just too weird to be part of their sample market.
     
    I think I should look around for an old drum machine now - and see if forcing my work patterns away from the computer is actually benefiting my creative workflow. Is it just me or do others find that, at times, your DAW is actually more of a hindrance than a help.
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
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