ryannadon
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Headphone mix setup
Hello Cakers,
I recently bought an "ART Head Amp 6", (a 6 channel rackmount headphone amp) and I'm a little confused regarding setting up the routing. I'd like to be able to increase or decrease the overall volume of the backing mix in the headphones independent of the track I'm recording. If possible I'd like to do this without altering my main out signal flow. My M-Audio Profire has several outputs besides the main outs, so I'm sure this is possible somehow. Any input on the subject would be most appreciated.
My current setup is as follows: an ART Voice Channel preamp into a M-Audio Profire via SPDIF, Main outs from the Profire go into the "DAW mix" of a Mackie Big Knob, and then straight into my monitors.
Thanks in advance,
Ryan
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brundlefly
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 15:46:44
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☄ Helpfulby ryannadon 2014/02/24 16:20:31
Basically you need to put sends on tracks or buses to the alternate hardware outputs on your Profire and from there to the Headphone amp. Depending on what you already have for buses and what you want in the way of mixes, you may need to create some new buses with sends from the tracks you want included. In that case, the dedicated headphone mix buses can output directly to alternate interface outs. If you just want copies of the Master bus signal to go to multiple headphone outs at different levels, you can just put the send(s) on the Master.
The exact arrangement of sends and buses and where you make level/mix adjustments depends on the architecture of the project, but basically you'll use sends to create copies of signals without affecting the signal flow to your Master bus and Main Outs.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
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Studious
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 16:05:00
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Connect your audio interface's secondary outputs (e.g. 3 & 4) to you headphone amp's inputs (e.g. 1 & 2).
In Sonar, the routing is flexible, but in the end you need your headphone mix going to outs 3 & 4 (in this case).
As an example, create "Sends" from tracks/buses to outputs 3/4 (or to a bus outputting to 3/4, rather than master). You then mix the headphone mix with those Send levels. The Send levels only affect outputs 3/4, so your main monitor mix is unaffected.
You can even repeat this process on outputs 5 & 6 (to inputs 3 & 4 on the headphone amp) to have a completely different headphone mix playing simultaneously (guitar player can have loud guitar/drums/vocals, while drummer can have loud bass, etc...)
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ryannadon
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 16:21:32
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Sweet!!! Got it figured out!! Thanks guys. I only wish there were faders to manipulate for all the sends instead of the little gain knobs...
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mcmasters
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 16:31:07
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YES faders would be much better.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT
A copy fader levels to send feature like that other 800 pound gorilla DAW has.
Having to remix the rough mix with the gain knobs is counter productive and so NOT fun.
A simple "copy faders to send X" would be fantastic.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 17:42:19
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+1, but usually with a dedicated headphone amp you can give them a copy of your main mix and then only add some extra level for whatever they need, and use the balance control. Not the same thing really, but usually quicker.
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rodreb
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 19:01:29
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Yes! Yes! To the "copy fader levels to send" idea!!! Genius! Please, please, Cakewalk, make it happen!!!!
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jb101
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 19:16:40
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mcmasters
YES faders would be much better.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT
A copy fader levels to send feature like that other 800 pound gorilla DAW has.
Having to remix the rough mix with the gain knobs is counter productive and so NOT fun.
A simple "copy faders to send X" would be fantastic.
Sorry if I misunderstand this. If you ctrl+click the tracks you want to go to your new bus (e.g. Headphone buss), then hover mouse over send module, right click and choose "Insert Send Assistant", it brings up a window where you can create a new bus, or use an existing one, and can also check "Match Track's Pan and Gain". You can also check "Pre Fade (defaults to post)". Don't know if that helps. edited to replace "knob" with "module".
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jb101
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 19:17:40
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rodreb
Yes! Yes! To the "copy fader levels to send" idea!!! Genius! Please, please, Cakewalk, make it happen!!!!
Again, sorry if I misunderstand this. If you ctrl+click the tracks you want to go to your new bus (e.g. Headphone buss), then hover mouse over send module, right click and choose "Insert Send Assistant", it brings up a window where you can create a new bus, or use an existing one, and can also check "Match Track's Pan and Gain". You can also check "Pre Fade (defaults to post)". Don't know if that helps. edited to replace "knob" with "module".
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ryannadon
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/24 23:16:33
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mcmasters
YES faders would be much better.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT
A copy fader levels to send feature like that other 800 pound gorilla DAW has.
Having to remix the rough mix with the gain knobs is counter productive and so NOT fun.
A simple "copy faders to send X" would be fantastic.
Hahaha! Looks like I stumbled on a sore spot! Having spent the afternoon twiddling tiny gain knobs, I have to agree most emphatically with McMasters; NOT fun. However, it is worth it in the end!
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jb101
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/25 04:13:11
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ryannadon
mcmasters
YES faders would be much better.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT
A copy fader levels to send feature like that other 800 pound gorilla DAW has.
Having to remix the rough mix with the gain knobs is counter productive and so NOT fun.
A simple "copy faders to send X" would be fantastic.
Hahaha! Looks like I stumbled on a sore spot! Having spent the afternoon twiddling tiny gain knobs, I have to agree most emphatically with McMasters; NOT fun. However, it is worth it in the end!
Sonar has one - it's called the send assistant - see post #8
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ryannadon
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/25 15:23:26
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lawajava
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/25 21:46:52
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ryannadon - just thought I'd mention I have some very similar gear. If you ever want to talk specifics about some of those pieces feel free to PM me. You can see some notes in my signature info.
Two internal 2TB SSDs laptop stuffed with Larry's deals and awesome tools. Studio One is the cat's meow as a DAW now that I've migrated off of Sonar. Using BandLab Cakewalk just to grab old files when migrating songs.
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Cactus Music
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/25 23:18:58
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Somehow I'm not getting what the problem is here. Most interfaces have the ability to balance the input signal with the playback from the DAW. Very few do not offer this feature. It might be a physical knob or it might be via a Software mixer. This feature is pretty darn important.
There was a similar thread a few days ago and in the end the person was having to spend more money to make up for a shortcoming in the monitoring system. In this case the lack of a output volume separate from the headphone volume.
Bottom line is when shopping for an audio interface, make sure it has the options you need.
Example , my Scarlett 6i6 ( and others in the series above it) have the software "Mix Control" that allows dozens of options for headphone and cue mixes that do not involve changes to your the DAW's mix. I haven't had to use more than one mix so far, but looks like I could have 4 different cue mixes happening. It takes only a couple clicks to set a nice balance between my input and the playback.
My Tascam interface did this with a knob but it was not very loud. The Scarlett is real loud! .
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ryannadon
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/26 16:02:09
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You are spot on regarding shopping for an interface that suits your needs. However, I bought my audio interface almost 5 years ago, and since then my needs have changed quite drastically. Maybe I should be looking into a new audio interface instead of a headphone amp, but doing it this way is allowing me to get maximum bang for my buck out of my existing interface as well as learning some new gear and some pretty awesome routing techniques.
There is a minimal software mixer that came with my Profire, but I just can't see how you could get multiple headphone mixes using that alone. I could be wrong though. I'm definitely open leaning how it works if there is a way.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Headphone mix setup
2014/02/26 16:32:57
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☄ Helpfulby ryannadon 2014/02/26 17:00:16
I completely disagree that you could do this with just your soundcard's mixer. That would work fine if all you need is a balance between what you're playing and "the backing track", that is however a far cry from making 2 or more independent headphone mixes. What if the guitarist doesn't want to hear the prerecorded leadvocals as loud as the keyboard player does? Or if the bass player wants mostly drums and not much else.
Any situation that requires multiple mixes of already recorded stuff means you have to make those mixes in the place where all the tracks are playing. So I believe you're going about it the right way, and you certainly don't need a different interface for this purpose.
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