rasputin1963
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SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
I am a veteran of earlier versions of SONAR and Cakewalk. Earlier programs used to offer a little control on each audio track which would enable you to make the whole track play several ticks earlier, or later, than its default position. This was a good way to experiment with a track's time position... without actually nudging the audio clip contained, forward or backward.
Does SONAR X3 no longer offer this little feature? Must I now nudge an actual audio clip backward and forward in time? Or is that old control hiding in some new place I haven't discovered?
Thanks, ras
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brundlefly
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2014/02/28 00:41:00
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It's only ever been on MIDI tracks and now it's only available via the Inspector. It's the Time+ (time offset) widget at the bottom of the Inspector on the downstream side (MIDI tab on Simple Instrument tracks).
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Kev999
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2014/02/28 00:41:40
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I wasn't aware that this feature applies to audio tracks. I believe that it is only on midi tracks.
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Dreamstation
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/28 18:11:06
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Is this a built-in feature, or a proposed one - for audio tracks? The existing midi time offset would be the equivalent of what I'm looking for.
post edited by Dreamstation - 2016/02/28 18:32:22
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Kylotan
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 04:57:13
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A hacky workaround would be to insert a delay, set it to 100% wet, and adjust the delay time to taste...
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WalkerTalker
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 05:52:03
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icontakt
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 06:34:06
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rasputin1963
Earlier programs used to offer a little control on each audio track which would enable you to make the whole track play several ticks earlier, or later, than its default position. This was a good way to experiment with a track's time position... without actually nudging the audio clip contained, forward or backward.
Maybe you also own Studio One, or some other DAW that has the feature, and mix it up with an early verison of SONAR?
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 08:42:40
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☄ Helpfulby pentimentosound 2016/02/29 09:53:24
To move audio inside an audio clip without moving the clip itself, click on the audio inside a clip with the Smart Tool while holding Alt+Shift, then drag.
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pentimentosound
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 09:41:04
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I just always split the clips and moved the part I wanted, but it just dawned on me this saves me a couple steps. Thanks, Craig.
Time to learn a new, more efficient way.
Michael
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Anderton
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 11:56:52
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Also BTW you can also do click+drag with Alt+Shift on MIDI clips. However this won't work if either the audio or MIDI clips are Groove Clips. If that's the case, then you need to bounce them to themselves first.
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pentimentosound
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 13:39:03
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Thank you, again. I hadn't thought of the MIDI possibility, but the Groove Clips exclusion makes complete sense.
Michael
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Beepster
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 13:52:09
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I use Channel Tools delay option for pure delay without having to nudge anything.
However actually nudging the clips avoids having to use a plug. Problem is then you lose the original clip position as soon as you move on to other actions. Therefore when doing that type of thing (manually moving the clip to cause dealy) I'd clone the track and archive the original so I can have the original position of the clip.
I guess another way to return to the previous state would be to put a marker in the timeline EXACTLY at the start point of the original clip. Then if you wanted to return it to it's original position you could Snap by Landmarks (Markers).
That is all probably not very helpful and there are probably much better ways to go about this. Just some things I've done/considered in my daily adventures.
Cheers.
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Dreamstation
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 17:27:24
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What I'm interested in is nudging the audio forward, without having to manipulate the clips at all. So these suggestions of plugins are good - something where you can experiment with a virtual knob to dial it in just right. Someone mentioned Studio One - does that have a built-in audio track timing offset, where the audio can be nudged forward a few ticks?
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Beepster
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 17:31:53
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Dreamstation
What I'm interested in is nudging the audio forward, without having to manipulate the clips at all. So these suggestions of plugins are good - something where you can experiment with a virtual knob to dial it in just right. Someone mentioned Studio One - does that have a built-in audio track timing offset, where the audio can be nudged forward a few ticks?
You should ask that on the Studio One forum. Not here. In Sonar... seriously try inserting the Channel Tools plugin and turning up the delay. It's precise, works and essentially does the same thing. In fact I believe Channel Tools was invented specifically to do the more advanced things the track controls don't necessarily do naturally.
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Dreamstation
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 17:45:39
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Beepster
Dreamstation
What I'm interested in is nudging the audio forward, without having to manipulate the clips at all. So these suggestions of plugins are good - something where you can experiment with a virtual knob to dial it in just right. Someone mentioned Studio One - does that have a built-in audio track timing offset, where the audio can be nudged forward a few ticks?
You should ask that on the Studio One forum. Not here.
In Sonar... seriously try inserting the Channel Tools plugin and turning up the delay. It's precise, works and essentially does the same thing. In fact I believe Channel Tools was invented specifically to do the more advanced things the track controls don't necessarily do naturally.
Sorry, I'm using the wrong terminology here and it's making it more confusing. I don't want to affect a delay, I want the opposite, to shift the audio in the opposite direction... I want to nudge the audio so it occurs sooner. So to use the Channel Tool plugin I would need to make a delay setting with a negative value. Is that possible?
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Beepster
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 18:09:02
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Ah... ya, I don't think that's possible with CT. Sorry.
This is of course one of those "many ways to skin a cat" things so I doubt there's been much demand/need for it.
Personally if it were super important to move backward in time I'd use the Nudge method and clone/archive the original for safe keeping.
Alternatively if you want the "Dial" effect to hear what's up you could nudge the desired clip backward in time MORE than you think you need it to be then apply Channel Tools and use the delay dial to move it "forward" to the point you want.
Pretty much the same thing. Just an extra step.
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brundlefly
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 18:09:34
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Dreamstation
Sorry, I'm using the wrong terminology here and it's making it more confusing. I don't want to affect a delay, I want the opposite, to shift the audio in the opposite direction... I want to nudge the audio so it occurs sooner. So to use the Channel Tool plugin I would need to make a delay setting with a negative value. Is that possible?
'Sooner' works. For future reference, I find the terms 'earlier' and 'later' to be pretty unambiguous. Channel tools cannot offset audio earlier; it can only delay. If you want to experiment without loosing the original timing of the clip, I recommend you copy it to a second lane of the track, solo the lane, and nudge the copy earlier.
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Dreamstation
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 18:21:56
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Beepster
Alternatively if you want the "Dial" effect to hear what's up you could nudge the desired clip backward in time MORE than you think you need it to be then apply Channel Tools and use the delay dial to move it "forward" to the point you want.
That's a really great idea. Thanks!
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Dreamstation
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 18:27:17
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brundlefly
Dreamstation
Sorry, I'm using the wrong terminology here and it's making it more confusing. I don't want to affect a delay, I want the opposite, to shift the audio in the opposite direction... I want to nudge the audio so it occurs sooner. So to use the Channel Tool plugin I would need to make a delay setting with a negative value. Is that possible?
'Sooner' works. For future reference, I find the terms 'earlier' and 'later' to be pretty unambiguous.
Channel tools cannot offset audio earlier; it can only delay. If you want to experiment without loosing the original timing of the clip, I recommend you copy it to a second lane of the track, solo the lane, and nudge the copy earlier.
It's the nudging that I'm trying to avoid though. It's a clunky way to do it, especially as you need to do it, listen, undo, redo it, listen, undo, redo, until you get it just right. Dialling it in should be quicker and a more elegant way to do this. If it exists in midi (negative timing offset) then there's no reason it can't for an audio track. And yes, "earlier" and "later" would have made a lot more sense haha
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Beepster
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 18:33:08
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I agree. Nudge is actually quite brutal. It bonks out my system/project momentarily even with playback stopped (I get the spinning "thinkin'" wheel between Nudge actions). With playback running it's really bad (stutters) and does not allow for proper real time observation of the delay being applied incrementally.
It's just one of those strange things in Sonar that seems like it uses WAY more resources than it needs to. Doesn't make sense to me.
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brundlefly
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 19:13:29
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I know how much workarounds are frowned upon around here, but if you really just want to git 'er done:
- Temporarily route the track that needs to be earlier direct to to Main Outs (or to a bus that's parallel to Master).
- Put Channel Tools or some other sample delay on the Master bus.
- Tweak the Master Bus delay until the relative timing of the tracks sounds like you want.
- Transfer the resulting offset to the clip in the track that needs to be earlier by nudging.
- Re-route the track back to Master, and delete Channel Tools.
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icontakt
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 19:48:30
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Dreamstation
Someone mentioned Studio One - does that have a built-in audio track timing offset, where the audio can be nudged forward a few ticks?
More than a few ticks, and in both directions (up to +100 and -100 ticks). I think it's OK to mention a feature of another DAW here, as it could motivate the Bakers to implement it.
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Dreamstation
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/02/29 20:13:49
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brundlefly
I know how much workarounds are frowned upon around here, but if you really just want to git 'er done:
- Temporarily route the track that needs to be earlier direct to to Main Outs (or to a bus that's parallel to Master).
- Put Channel Tools or some other sample delay on the Master bus.
- Tweak the Master Bus delay until the relative timing of the tracks sounds like you want.
- Transfer the resulting offset to the clip in the track that needs to be earlier by nudging.
- Re-route the track back to Master, and delete Channel Tools.
This work-around shows some great "outside the square" thinking and I'm impressed with the logical solution. However it's fairly convoluted, and where it falls short is in the flexibility of adjusting and setting different channels on the fly, setting and forgetting, and maybe coming back to later - shifting one track a little that way, shifting another, making these little adjustments to help the groove work a little better - in a creative sense. Bottom-line is that the Studio One channel offset mentioned by icontakt above, where it exists as a widget on a channel (and how it already exists on a Sonar midi channel), is simple and ideal - I would *love* to see that implemented in Sonar!
post edited by Dreamstation - 2016/02/29 20:42:11
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brundlefly
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/03/01 02:23:31
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Yeah, you wouldn't want to have to do that all the time. I have to say it's a little surprising this hasn't come up more frequently. Being a MIDI guy, I don't encounter this need very often, but I can see why you'd want to have a simple offset control for audio.
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jonboper
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Re: SONAR used to offer a time advance/delay per each track. No more?
2016/03/01 08:12:50
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As someone who uses demanding instruments and effects I think the OP has a wonderful feature request here. It doesn't seem like it would be all that hard to implement...
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