Advice, reviews, caveats re MOTU 2408mk3 and FriendChip DMX-12?

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Jay Tee 4303
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2014/02/28 17:49:03 (permalink)

Advice, reviews, caveats re MOTU 2408mk3 and FriendChip DMX-12?

Links:
 
Motu 2408mk3:
http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/2408
 
FriendChip DMX12:
http://www.friend-chip.de/more12.htm
 
 
I am finalizing design decisions for connecting the tracking and control rooms, and am somewhat committed to the MOTU system, as it is set to arrive Wednesday.
 
Background: Tracking room is set up to capture, process, and record audio locally and or solo, a one person operation if need be, with control room in cold shutdown when not needed.
 
Tracking room includes Profire 2626,  and a pair of lightpiped ADA-8000s on an I7, 12 gig Lenovo, a Fast Track Ultra, USB'd to a Walmart Dell ancilliary PC for MP3, video playback, user manual support, and wireless mic practice/pre-pro, which is SPDIFed to the 2626 in an 8x2 submix config. 240 point TRS patchbay, w 8 comps, 8 geqs, 5 multiFX, 6 synths, guitar, bass, digital drumpads, drum machine, mics, pre's, etc. All placed to be operated from a standing position, except for drumpads and machine.  Audio connections to playback room/lounge via 6 balanced outs/2 balanced ins.
 
Also feeding playback/lounge are 4 balanced audio lineouts from Remote Recording laptop docking station w C600 interface. 
 
Control room currently houses an Intel Core 2 Duo 7400, which is likely to upgrade soon, another Walmart Dell ancilliary PC, the network core, print farm, and a 1TB network drive on the demark router (LAN side). The Core Duo hosts the house fileservers, 3.25TB total. Besides the LAN, (gigabyte and fast ethernet), there are currently no connections between the tracking and control rooms, but they are adjacent w easy thru wall and underfloor access. For sit down mixing and post, I currently transfer project and bundle files between the two prim\\via the network drive, which also supports backup ops. 
 
TR daw running X1 Studio, plus goodies. X2 Essential plus on remote laptop. X1 Studio on CR daw, soon to dual host X2 Producer, and if that proves reliable there, TR will get X2 Pro as well.
 
Three current objectives: 
 
1. Realtime mixing, transport control, capture and processing between tracking and control rooms, recording in this case to CR PC. 
 
2. Preserving solo, standalone operations in tracking room w control room PCs shut down. 
 
3. Control room to act as hub between tracking and as yet unmentioned future iso/drum room, since it sits between them.   
 
One MOTU Core 2408mk3 system will create a 24 I/O  terminal capable of selecting from 3 banks of 8 ch ADAT via lightpipe, 8 local line I/Os and 1 SPDIF optical I/O, with expandability 4X on one CR daw, and/or other arrangements, since you can mix and match 4 MOTU interfaces on the host card, other configs being 24 line I/O, or 12 line I/O at higher sample rates. 
 
I am reasonably confident that a second 2408 will meet my long term needs, offering up to 48 ADAT lightpipe I/O lanes, and/or 2 SPDIF lanes between tracking and control, or iso room, in addition to 16 local line I/Os... ...IF everything works as advertised, and certain concerns are resolved. 
 
 Concerns: 
 
1. The MOTU hardware is older technology. Not sure just how old w the Mk 3 units, but not cutting edge. Well respected, but, this is a fast paced field and I don't know what kind of edges I may be trading off on AD/DA circuits, isolation, noise etc. 
 
2. I understand actual capture bandwidth is limited by PC specs, not the MOTU hardware, and this is the way I want it, as DAWs are easier to upgrade than plant connectivity. I also recognize the limitations of MOTUs 'banks of 8 (or less) selectivity approach' but two 2408s would easily allow 24 adat pipes tracking to control, 1 SPDIF, and 1 or 2 addtl adat pipes to iso room if housing drums. 
 
3. A key concern is sync, (digital, not pointer), especially given the dual approach to capture, either solo tracking room operation, or traditional tracking/CR config. Thinking is that keeping the 2626 as sync master, allows both modes, using simple ADAT sync with possible exception of sync in the iso room, 'bridged' via the CR. I think I can this 'sync bridge issue' by having one of the 2408s in there, connected to the CR daw by MOTUs proprietary cable, which also gets around the one instance where the 5 meter ADAT lightpipe limit, but I am approaching the edge of my knowlege and experience limits here, and edges make me nervous. Motu says that a custom cable up to 50' can connect the first interface to the PCIe card, but no mentions of cable limits on additional cards, or total buss length limits.
 
 4. I have no knowlege of the Friend Chip DMX 12's reliability or reputation in production environments, outside the company's (thin) website. This is a major part of the full utility of the planned installation. Anyone running these? 
 
5. I have heard lightpipe technology is pushed by the ADAT protocol, and understand the consequences, but running 5-6 realtime streams, thru up to 6 lightpipes ought to give me some headroom, avoid errors and data loss, and still give me 30 track capability....right?  
 
6. Cost. I don't feel like throwing money away, but I want to get this right, and then, largely forget it. I have GAS but fight it, its supposed to be about the music, not buttons, lights and knobs. 
I know that MADI is key for the future, but it doesn't fit my setup now, not in any config seen to date. I know ADATs days are numbered, but it fits what I need now, and I think the key components, (2626, 2408) will be around longer than me. The DMX 12 is a question mark in the longevity regard as well. 
 
A core and expansion 2408, 24 point TRS patchbay, the DMX 12, and necessary toslink/coax cabling will set me back right around $3k. Can I do it cheaper? Without giving up key objectives? Can I spend a little more on a different solution and add MADI (or even Dante) possibilities for future expansion?
 
7. Control. With the DMX 12 in the tracking room, and on the facility's MIDI matrix, control of digital routing from either control or tracking ought not to be too much headache....right? 
 
Major concern..the unknown. What have I missed, ignored, forgotten, or not even thought of yet? All input welcome.
 
(Edit: sorry about the mess, my Android ate my paragraphs, when fixing a typo. Two rounds on me for anybody who tried to read that!)
post edited by Jay Tee 4303 - 2014/02/28 18:33:57

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5 Replies Related Threads

    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Advice, reviews, caveats re MOTU 2408mk3 and FriendChip DMX-12? 2014/03/03 05:01:28 (permalink)
    Think I changed my mind. Not going to pay $900 for a SPDIF/ADAT solution thats already too small for both, when I can pay $1100 for an ADAT patch matrix that gives me room to expand.
     
    Z Systems Optipatch+
    http://www.sweetwater.com.tore/detail/OptiPatchPl/
     
    Anybody used these?
    What do you think?
     
    Also, whats the longest Toslink run you'd consider?  I can connect the iso room with an 8 meter run, but 10 would give me more slack. Stay fiber or convert to cat-5 and back?

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    wst3
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    Re: Advice, reviews, caveats re MOTU 2408mk3 and FriendChip DMX-12? 2014/03/05 18:52:11 (permalink)
    Z-Sys stuff is as good as it gets. In fact I'd say they can't be beat!
     
    As far as distances go, I have several 10 meter runs for lightpipe and never had a problem. Do buy high quality fiber though!

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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Advice, reviews, caveats re MOTU 2408mk3 and FriendChip DMX-12? 2014/03/10 23:09:21 (permalink)
    Thanks, Bill. That's good news.
     
    Do I have to look to both sides of the Optipatch? Say I have ADAT interface A connected by a 2 meter Toslink to the Opti, and route that to ADAT interface B by a 10 meter Toslink, is that effectively a 10 meter run or a 12 meter run?
     
     

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    wst3
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    Re: Advice, reviews, caveats re MOTU 2408mk3 and FriendChip DMX-12? 2014/03/11 21:26:21 (permalink)
    Jay Tee 4303Do I have to look to both sides of the Optipatch? Say I have ADAT interface A connected by a 2 meter Toslink to the Opti, and route that to ADAT interface B by a 10 meter Toslink, is that effectively a 10 meter run or a 12 meter run?

     
    Well total distance will be an issue, but the Optipatch (and the Apache and the Digipatch) operate as repeaters, so they regenerate the pulses, so you could (in theory) go 10 meters on each side. In theory<G>... I've never tried it, and I suspect that you'd be really pushing the limits! But 12 meters should not be a problem.

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    Jay Tee 4303
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    Re: Advice, reviews, caveats re MOTU 2408mk3 and FriendChip DMX-12? 2014/03/12 08:57:46 (permalink)
    Most excellent!
     
    Two orders to acquire the equipment, both delayed due to Toslink cable acquisition, but the second one should arrive Friday and we'll see how it all MIDIs up.
     
    Hopefully, not having to push the envelope will allow error free operations. Unable to purchase a second 2626 for the tracking room as they're discontinued, I went with a Saffire Pro 40, which opens one port on the Optipatch, allowing two each for the more distant runs. That gives me 16 channels in each extra room, which are overkill for even drums, so I can distribute the signal flow and not max the lightpipes in either case. And 16 channels in the opposite direction will also allow more than needed for a detailed monitor mix.
     
    Of course, theory is one thing, we'll just have to see how it works in practice. If there's problems, I have model numbers for Toslink to Cat 5 converters, and they aren't too expensive.
     
    I appreciate your help, and will post up how it all works out.
     
    Thanks!

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