A tweak that I can't live without?!!

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R3V3RB
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February 28, 14 11:10 PM (permalink)

A tweak that I can't live without?!!

Now, I'm no Windows guru so I offer this tip on an "at your own risk" basis!!.
Actually it's not really anything new so the designation 'tip' I will use just for convenience.
 
That said, I've been reaping satisfying gains with it since Sonar x1 and have never encountered any issues at all on Windows 7 (HP).
 
(To the many highly 'tech savvy' forum frequenters,  I'm simply offering suggestions about the employment of process cpu priority 'techniques' that promote an increase in Sonar's performance).
 
So, to the one reader left:-
  Pops and clicks etc can occur on any system at any time, and ofttimes it's not just the DAW to blame, although of course sometimes it is. Other issues can include timing problems, sync problems, latency issues and more.
  My point is that there is never usually any single magic fix, but I've found that this adjustment (read fiddling!) has worked well for me in promoting smoother glitch free audio, ironing out issues with all sorts of annoying things such as latency, sync and many of the common glitches. It has also produced sometimes substantial noticeable performance gains overall. 
 Basically it entails pushing the 'cpu priority' of Sonar and Bit bridge higher than anything else on the system, whilst simultaneously throttling back on those low priority processes that you know Sonar's 'system tree' so to speak, doesn't directly rely upon and which you learn to recognize as frequent 'offenders' with unwarranted theft of your precious cpu resources.  Equally important is recognizing those processes essential to keeping the pc system,OS and DAW stable and unhindered.
  Now, while this in itself is nothing particularly new or inventive (and some may suggest it's not a good idea**) I have been performing these actions on my system regularly now since x1, methodically and gradually modifying it over time and have observed performance gains and stability solid enough for me to decide it worth at least sharing in concept here.
 My DAW is based upon the i7 2600k cpu coupled to high performance components that were spared (almost!) no expense from power supply to output jacks. Professionally overclocked and water cooled, it is not particularly at the bottom of the performance pile just yet, but even so, I have seen evident 'DAW horsepower' increases when opposed to leaving everything alone in vanilla guise.
Essentially, the goal of this 'tip' is to use Windows 'Task Manager' to observe and adjust the cpu priority of various processes in order to achieve an overall noticeable performance increase in what is already the world's best DAW.
By opening the Task Manager and selecting the "Processes" tab it is possible to view in real time the processes your computer is currently running. By right clicking on a process a drop down menu offers you the ability to "Set CPU Priority".
Whilst hovering over this option, you are presented with another drop down menu which offers a list of selections:-
 
Realtime < (it has been suggested by many that this option is NEVER USED to avoid possible problems.)
High
Above Normal
Normal
Below Normal
Low
 
  As you may well have surmised by now, selecting one of the presented options places the chosen level of priority made available to that particular process. In essence the computer dictates to that process how 'important' it is and thus effectively how much time and access it is lent to the processing power of the systems physical cpu'(s)
Thus, by strategically altering the priority of various processes we can manipulate to a degree how much cpu processing the system dedicates to your DAW. Also ,as I said at the beginning, we can just as strategically remove priority from processes which are unimportant to the stable running of system and DAW further increasing available processing power. By adjusting and observing - adjusting and observing, I have over time configured my system to a degree which by result 'forces' the computer to prioritize the smooth running of Sonar by making available to Sonar the maximum cpu 'attention' and priority available at any given time.
However, there used to be a big drawback which reduced ones efforts to little more than adventurous tinkering:-
As standard Windows does not save your chosen priority settings on any given process. After the process stops, when Windows needs to call it up again it's priority setting has reset to the default it had when it last ran, before you changed that setting.
This meant that you were left with no option but to spend a not insubstantial amount of time and effort opening Task Manager and setting each priority of a small 'Hit list' of processes you have learned offer the best performance increase for the time and effort every time you ran your DAW. Once you shut it all down you were faced with repeating the same tedious tasks again every time you ran your DAW.
As you've probably guessed, that is now no longer the case because I eventually came across a tiny free application* for Windows 7 32/64bit that you run once, which then installs a tidy, small number of files to your system which seamlessly add extra functionality to the drop down menus in Windows Task Manager!
  With this installed, every process that you modify will from then on remember your chosen level of process priority even after the process has terminated and re-run, and even after system shut downs.
This means that you now have the time to Google and learn at leisure what each individual process you see running does, and how important it is, and then make an educated decision (guess?!) on the cpu priority you decide to permanently give that process - unless of course you wish to adjust it again yourself.
I basically fiddled like this over time and by conducting little experiments and keeping the changes which seem to offer improvement, keeping the changes that don't seem to offer improvement but don't offer negative side effects either, and promptly reversing changes that even hint at no benefit and/or appear to 'feel' they exhibit negative results on system performance.
Of all the processes to tweak, obviously SonarPDR.exe and Bitbridge produce the best instant results in various situations.
For example, as a test I created a project using a proportionally higher number of 32bit plugins vs 64bit. I loaded them on untill I started to encounter the first signs of audio drops, clicks and crackles. By switching the priority of "Bitbridge.exe*32" to a Higher priority than "SONARPDR.exe"  the negative audio artifacts and dropouts disappeared.
So, it seems to me anyway, that there is something beneficial to be had here, albeit nothing like a doubling of power or anything, but maybe enough to offer benefit to certain users for whom cpu resources count right down to the last cycle. Maybe they can manage to hit a little 'sweetspot' on their system with their own tweak endeavors allowing just enough available power to squeeze in that all important closing crash.
 
 As I said initially, I'm no Guru. Maybe some of you with advanced knowledge may be sat shaking your heads thinking I've been damn lucky my OS hasn't bricked, or maybe even considering this basic commonplace system housekeeping, but after all this time and testing, not to mention flawless music production, I'm of the opinion that, for me at least, my results are evident and thus currently negate those unheeded warnings. Almost all reported problems on this subject involve the use of the "Realtime" setting in Task Manager. Keeping away from that initially or all together greatly reduces the chance of running into any problems at all.
I've been using it without incident, however after further reading on the subject I am going to refrain from using it at all in future.
 
 Here are some further recommended undertakings that can greatly enhance the benefits realized from the above 'tuning up':-
 
Another similar, less 'exotic' (to this rookie) and possibly equally beneficial 'tinkering' I have undertaken is to identify the processes that are almost completely non beneficial to my system as operated by me  (certain application update managers, task schedulers, over frequent system monitors and the like among various other types of snoopy rubbish) and set Windows to completely disable them in future unless reinstated by me. By result these will then not even run themselves at all at any time thus preventing unwanted cpu drain before it even starts. This is similar in effect to the results gained from disabling unwanted rubbish from the startup and services menus (another more common performance tweak points).
 
One further 'tip' involves experimenting with actual (multi) cpu core designation, also available under Task Manager which allows you to modify which physical cpu cores and/or Threads you decide to make available, or not, to desired or undesired processes.
Experimentation has yeilded me varying results, although changes to most applications defaults more often yield performance drops and of the less often discovered gains the effect is less dramatic than the other aforementioned tricks.
 
Lastly, another option in Task Manager is to set 'I/O priority' of processes. As of now I'm not up to speed on that one totally, and I believe it is automatically tied to process cpu priority leading me to believe there may be little on offer here.
 
 
* The Task Manager modification application mentioned is called Prio. A Google search should find it. It's free and you may quickly find you consider it a permanent must have.
 
**Adjusting priority settings of multiple processes with reckless abandon can in fact cause a system to slow down, reduce in performance and even become unstable due to the intricate nature of various processes relying upon other processes and each other and so on, risking a potential 'house of cards' instability. However as cpu's have rapidly become vastly more powerful, this risk, when approached sensibly and systematically, making sure that changes are done gradually and monitored, documented and reversed at the first hint of a problem is somewhat far less great than it once was. 
Also for anyone starting out it is strongly advised that the user DOES NOT use the priority "Realtime" until they acquire their own grounded understanding of this subject.
 
 
My recommended starting point is that the 'SONARPDR.exe and Bitbridge.exe*32' processes are set to "Very High" priority and that they are then left as the only 2 processes you allocate that designation to.
 
 Everything else you wish to change should only ever be set from "low" to "Above Normal" with the goal of lowering the priority of any processes as far as possible without adverse effect. This then gives Sonar a higher priority over many many other computer processes lending it effectively an improved 'system headroom' which as a result reduces the probability that Sonar will be momentarily interrupted by other processes which can lead to many of the common problems people encounter.
For me, my problem used to be audio pops,clicks and occasionally drop outs. By reconfiguring the priority of common processes that often run alongside Sonar yet have no part in its execution I managed to completely remove any and all audio problems and artefacts. This was the single biggest result that proved to me this "priority shuffling" really can potentially remedy problems.
Another benefit I received was a tighter integration to my DAW of my Access Virus hardware synthesizer. It would often get 'jogged' out of sync for no obvious reason. My twiddles have pretty much totally rectified that also.
 
   For curious people who fancy a twiddle, I suggest setting the processes " SonarPDR.exe" and "Bitbridge" to the settings I just mentioned and touch nothing else. Go through a session and see how it goes. The improvement at this stage may seem very minor or even un noticeable, but as you get familiar with the process and make more adjustments to other processes you may start to notice improvement in the overall performance and feel you are used to. 
 
Disclaimer  - I reserve the modesty to be corrected on any point, and I reserve the right to change all my channel strips red to hide any blushing.
Where is everybody?
Cheers.
 
P.S - thanks to the contributers in this thread so far who have influenced me to withdraw any suggestion of using the controversial "Realtime" option in Task Manager. I intend to address it again another day but shall approach with greater caution.
post edited by R3V3RB - March 01, 14 2:55 PM
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16 Replies Related Threads

    Grem
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 0:21 PM (permalink)
    Nice post. So what you telling us is "how" you experimented and obtained results in performance and stability from these experiments.

    I see your method, but could you give info on what processes you changed, to get those who would like to try, going in the right direction?

    Grem

    Michael
     
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    #2
    cliffr
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 0:39 PM (permalink)
    Hey R3,
     
    I recon you might be in for a lot of questions now.
     
    Awesome of you to post this dude :-)
     
    Cheers - Cliff

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    #3
    R3V3RB
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 1:18 AM (permalink)
    Cheers guys.
    Opinion on this subject is divided, but as far as using Sonar on a system pretty much pared down to run that and not much else I'm confident many people should notice improvement like I have.
     
    I strongly advise that people Google for information on "process priority for windows" before starting to change other process settings other than Sonar and Bitbridge.
     
    for W7 heres a start:-
     
    http://www.wikihow.com/Ch...n-Windows-Task-Manager
    #4
    SvenArne
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 4:34 AM (permalink)
    I'll try this for sure! Thanks for the info!





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    Grem
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 6:10 AM (permalink)
    Thanks for the info reverb.

    I only use my music PC for that purpose only. Am curious to see what I can get out of it. Have often wondered about all these processes going on.

    Grem

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    azslow3
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 7:54 AM (permalink)
    Music community is big, but gaming community  is huge
    And in topic of computer optimization the goals are close. I recommend digging PC Gaming optimizing guides, may be ignoring irrelevant parts (Network and FPS related).
     
    While increasing the priority can do the trick in some cases, eliminating all unneeded processes and services is more stable solution. Priority gives preference in reaction on several events (planned CPU time slot, event from the hardware, etc.) but other processes, when they are running, still continue to eat resources and they still can have explicit or implicit blocking impact (especially when they access shared resources like disk). True "realtime" applications never access shared resources for that reason, SONAR is obviously not a real time programm and hi priority does not change that.
     
    Also processes scheduling is only one from many optimization directions. Latency (I do not mean audio one) is the show stopper in almost all cases, it is hard to diagnose and eliminate. Up to Windows 8 DPC Latency Checker can show the idea. Just to mention some other: drivers for everything, BIOS, virtual RAM, all "Green" functions...So, ultimate solution does not exists

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    Geo524
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 10:16 AM (permalink)
    Just tried this tweak for the heck of it but windows wouldn't let me change the priority. Got a message "access denied"... I have a brand new computer and Sonar X3d is running great as is. However. I'm always on a quest to get the best possible performance from my system and would like to see if this tweak makes it even better. What do I need to do in order to change he priorities? Thanks

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    #8
    R3V3RB
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 2:03 PM (permalink)
    Hi azslow3,
     Thanks for your comments and input.
    I'm in agreement that the best gains are to be had when reducing the priority of un important processes and that these gains probably outweigh those had by simply raising the priority of Sonar and Bitbridge.
    Your comments on the promotion of the SONARPDR.exe process to Realtime are interesting and I shall endeavor to find more definitive information. 
    Subsequently I would encourage people who choose to embark on their own tweakings to promote "SONARPDR.exe" and "Bitbridge.exe*32" no further than "High" in Task manager. This reduces the chance of any problems for people while they investigate their own process lists in order to identify candidates on which they can lower those processes priority.
    For those wishing to be ultra careful, of course the best move would be to lower the priority of any processes in 1 step increments and monitoring performance.
    Keeping notes is the best idea as if any sudden anomalies occur then one can refer to their notes in order to return the last change back to its previous setting. This is effectively what I have been doing for some time now.
     
    Geo524 :-
    It may be possible that you are not running your OS with "administrator privileges". Do a Google search for that term in order to find help rectifying that.
    #9
    Geo524
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 4:01 PM (permalink)
    R3V3RB
     
    Geo524 :-
    It may be possible that you are not running your OS with "administrator privileges". Do a Google search for that term in order to find help rectifying that.

    Thanks R3. I had to turn user control off. Is there a way to save the priorites once I've changed them? The priorities default to normal after closing Sonar. Thanks.



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    #10
    Splat
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 7:00 PM (permalink)
    I generally trust the OS to do it's job here and let it manage the processes, rather than override the defaults. I would only consider doing something like this if I was desperate for CPU power (however I would consider upgrading my hardware first).
     
    What's more important is disabling the windows services you don't need or want (plenty of info out there in googleland), plus disabling the junk apps that startup with windows + getting rid of unnecessary tasks (or scheduling them better) in the task scheduler.

    Cheers...

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
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    Splat
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 7:05 PM (permalink)
    Really what you are doing is something similar but more granual (and more of a manual approach) to Performance Options (Right click My Computer -> System Properties -> Advanced) and then changing the best performance setting here... However it is recommend you keep it at default (programs).

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    Kev999
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 01, 14 9:08 PM (permalink)
    R3V3RB
    ...By switching the priority of "Bitbridge.exe*32" to a Higher priority than "SONARPDR.exe"...

     
    I went to alter the priority setting for BitBridge and found that it was already set to "High" by default.

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    azslow3
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 02, 14 4:56 AM (permalink)
    My SONAR has "Below Normal" by default...
    But as I wrote, all that is like VIP queue to overloaded plane. It will not flight faster and it crash if too heavy.But in case you are the only passenger, there is no reason to pay for priority queue.

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    R3V3RB
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 02, 14 9:04 PM (permalink)
    Geo524
    R3V3RB
     
    Geo524 :-
    It may be possible that you are not running your OS with "administrator privileges". Do a Google search for that term in order to find help rectifying that.

    Thanks R3. I had to turn user control off. Is there a way to save the priorites once I've changed them? The priorities default to normal after closing Sonar. Thanks.




    Hi,
    Yes. As I mentioned, you will need to download the small app called Prio. Here is a link:-
     
    http://www.askvg.com/how-to-permanently-set-process-priority-in-windows-task-manager/
     
    Once you have run the installer it simply adds a few files to your system which then gives you more options from Task Manager including the saving of settings. It doesn't need to run as a program all the time either so once its installed those changes are made and thats that, without using system resources.
    #15
    Splat
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 02, 14 10:18 PM (permalink)
    Please remember increasing the priority only improves matters if it is competing with another process, and that process it is competing with may actually slow down your DAW as it's priority may (effectively) be reduced.... This is not a magic button that suddenly makes certain applications quicker. The app should come with a warning label. The OP was very comprehensive, fair and balanced though (nice post in that respect). I still would avoid.
     
    Cheers...

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #16
    bapu
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    Re: A tweak that I can't live without?!! March 03, 14 8:45 PM (permalink)
    FWIW, I have SOANR running on an older computer (Q6600 4GB running W7 64bit) that for some reason would occasionally stutter (not crash, not audio engine die or a dropout.... just stutter). The stutter would be in random places but always at least once for each play/record of the project.
     
    This was not a particularly heavy project. 2 Audio tracks and two or three PC modules.
     
    After changing SONAR High vs. Normal, the stutter went away. I did not try above normal.
     
    Of course I did not use the mentioned app (yet) and after closing and opening  SONAR (reset back to Normal) the stutter would return.
    #17
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