Drum Overhead Mics?

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Rimshot
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2014/03/13 09:14:28 (permalink)

Drum Overhead Mics?

I am considering:
 
1.  Rode M5's  $200.00
2.  Tascam TM-PC1's  $100.00
3.  Shure SM57's  $200
 
I would like the mics to be good drum overheads as well as acoustic and vocals.  
Any thoughts?
 
Thanks.
 
Rimshot
 

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    AT
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/13 10:32:07 (permalink)
    The rode's would be my choice, tho I haven't used them.  Rode makes decent mics, and an SDC pair is a traditional choice for overheads.  I use a pair of Oktava mc-012s and they work well.  You'll also be covered for other uses - stereo anything, acoustic guitar, other strings, hand-held percussion. 
     
    The 57s probably ain't discrete enough for good overheads.  On the other hand, they are great for many other uses (snare, guitar cab, toms) and you should have at least one.
     
    I've gotten great results from 3 mics - two overheads and a good pzm (not a $50 soundgrabber) on the floor (wood) about equidistant from the snare/kick nexus.  Great sound w/ a good drummer, tho not a big-kick kind of sound.  And a relatively cheap setup.  I've also gotten a pretty good sound just by using the pair of pzms in front of the drums, tho that was only because those were the only pair I had at the time.
     
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    #2
    bluzdog
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/13 11:35:28 (permalink)
    I use a pair of Octava mc-12's also and I like them a lot. They were all the rage for SDC's awhile back.
     
    Rocky
    #3
    Ruben
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/13 14:22:41 (permalink)
    I haven't used those Rode models but I've owned Rode mics and I like the quality, so I would lean towards the Rode pair over the other choices. 

      
    #4
    Rimshot
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/13 23:52:37 (permalink)
    Thanks guys.  
    Looks like Rodes are preferred.  
     
    Has anyone at least heard the Tascam? 

    Rimshot 

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    bluzdog
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/14 11:04:57 (permalink)
    Congrats and good luck. Let us know how they work out.
     
    Rocky
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    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/14 12:35:34 (permalink)
    Rimshot
    I am considering:
     
    1.  Rode M5's  $200.00
    2.  Tascam TM-PC1's  $100.00
    3.  Shure SM57's  $200
     
    I would like the mics to be good drum overheads as well as acoustic and vocals.  
    Any thoughts?
     



    The 57 is a great mic when you want a tight focused aggressive mid-range.
    This is why it works so well for snare and guitar cab.
    The 57 won't capture the high-end detail that you're looking for in overhead and acoustic scenarios.
     
    The Rode M5's would be my choice of those three.
     
    Have a look at a pair of Studio Projets B1 mics.
    They're large diaphragm condenser... but they have a thin diaphragm.
    This allows them to respond more like a small diaphragm mic (where transient detail is better preserved).
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #7
    Starise
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/14 14:10:34 (permalink)
    Apparently a lot of engineers use larger condenser mics as drum overheads.
     
    Another choice would be the  The MXL 603. They can be bought in a matched set. 
     
     

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    #8
    Rimshot
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/14 22:11:07 (permalink)
    Thanks to all for your comments.  I am still reviewing at this point.  I am hoping for a good inexpensive pair so that I might be able to offer remote recording of choirs, musicals, local orchestral events, etc.  The M5's seem to have the best signal to noise ration and their is a decent YouTube video show how they recorded a small string quartet as well as a choir.  
     
    Rimshot
     

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    southpaw3473
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/15 08:29:03 (permalink)
    I own and use the Rode M5s. I really like them as overheads and on acoustic guitars for fingerstyle. I also use Avantone CK-1s and they work very well. A little brighter than the Rodes.

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    #10
    Rimshot
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/18 21:59:43 (permalink)
    So I bought the Samson 7 drum mic kit.  
    http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/7DrumMicKit/?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PPC&utm_campaign=none&utm_term=DSA_-_Product&adpos=1t1&device=c&network=g&gclid=CO2Nzc--nb0CFcuSfgodQFQA3Q
     
    I decided that I needed the 2 pencil condenser overheads and their kick mic seemed pretty decent to catch the raw sound from what I saw on YouTube.  The tom mics seem OK and I can EQ those to taste (I hope).  I will most likely use a SM57 on the snare.  Not sure about the hi hat yet.  
     
    All in all, for $199, I will have a way to capture my kit better than what I have been doing and look forward to seeing how good I can tweek this system.  In my old studio days, I recorded tons of groups using all SM57's but with a 421 on the kick.  Made lots of rock demos back then.  I am excited to see how well I can make an inexpensive mic setup work.
     
    I'll will post some tracks in a few weeks.
     
    Thanks to all.
     
    Rimshot
     

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    aspenleaf
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/19 00:16:36 (permalink)
    +1 on the Studio Projects B1 for overheads.  I set them aside for a few years as I was using ribbon mics for OHs, but recently used them on a project and got a nice image of the kit.
     
    If you want very natural sounding cymbals and a big low end, you might want to consider using ribbons.
    post edited by aspenleaf - 2014/03/19 00:48:02
    #12
    jerry@macwood.com
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/19 16:51:33 (permalink)
    Try http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=behringer+pencil+condensers&qpvt=behringer+pencil+condensers&FORM=IGRE
     
    The the c2's and have done a remarkable job in my home studio!
     
    #13
    ChuckC
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/19 19:00:18 (permalink)
    Rimshot,
     Grabbed 2 pairs of these when they were about $150/pair, now I see they are on sale at $99.   They are nice for the money and come with shockmounts, and extra elastics for the shockmounts too.  I have been using this on my last several recordings for Overheads or Hat/ride mics, as well as I use one as my bottom snare mic.  Picks up that nice snap from the snare.
    http://www.guitarcenter.c...-108256280-i2613804.gc

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    #14
    Rimshot
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/19 22:56:52 (permalink)
    Thanks again guys.  I am going to hook up my new Samson 7 kit and it comes with two pencil condenser mics that I have heard on YouTube.  I think they will work good for my overheads.  We will see.  I have always tried to do more with less and I look foward to a challenge.  I also ordered a Presonus 44VSL to compare against my Zoom R24.  I am hoping to do some re-amping with it and want to learn more about the VSL capabilities.  
    I hope to soon get into some radio ads and jingles for fun.  
     
    Rimshot

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    brconflict
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/21 09:54:15 (permalink)
    I use the best mics I can afford for overheads, mainly because they are attempting to pick up the entire kit. Many times, I use AKG C451B's (matched stereo pair), but other times, I will use some flat side-address condenser mics, like a couple of Shure KSM44's, AT4050's, or AKGC414's. The rest of the kit gets a D6 and AT4047 on the kick (in and out, respectively), SM57 on the Snare (top), Audix D1 under the snare, some Sennheiser MD421-U5's on toms, an AT3030 on the hi-hat, and a Royer R101 for room mic, if not a tube mic. 
     
    This is a lot to buy, but the point is to find the best matched mics you can for overheads. Even your best vocal mics may be worth a try. If you have a semi-good stereo pair of mics and one really good vocal mic, use the vocal mic in the center. Nothing wrong with 3 overheads if phase is easy to manage for you. The rest of the kit is typically to bring out only what the overheads don't reveal in the kit (or the drummer), so those mics may be more "utility" than used for character.
     
    Sidenote: More experienced drummers hit the cymbals less and with a lighter hand, hitting the toms harder.  "Cymbals are your friends. The toms are the ENEMY!" - I forget who said that!  Great drummers also know how different a kit may be tuned for studio vs. stage, what heads to use, what sticks, and how to play. This will make more difference in the overheads than anything else you'll work with.

    Brian
     
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    #16
    bapu
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 14:18:24 (permalink)
    My best recording of overheads was with two AKG C414's
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 15:07:25 (permalink)
    A little off the topic..
    I wonder if those Tascam mikes  are close to the same as what are built into the portable recorders. 
    I use the DR40 for recording the local choir 3 times a year.  It has 2 XLR inputs so the first year I used it I also set a matched set of these AKG condensers up on stands further out. I'm sorry can't remember the model, I borrowed them but he said they were worth around $400 for the pair. 
    Anyhow, back at the studio, the Tascam's built in mikes had the clearest recording. So now I just use it by itself. I used to drag my laptop, interface etc. For $150 forget the mikes, buy the whole thing. 
    http://tascam.com/product/dr-40/
     
     
     

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    #18
    Dave Modisette
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 15:17:11 (permalink)
    I've got a pair of AKG C1000S.  People like to talk down about them but they've worked for me and they're built tough.

    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

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    #19
    rumleymusic
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 17:06:25 (permalink)
    The C414 is the most popular I have seen in the studio world.  It is a good multi purpose LDC and tend to be the nicest non-valve mic in most studios.  I feel there are better sounding options though.  The Sennheiser MKH8040 is the best I have ever heard.  With two of those and a large diaphragm dynamic on the kick you can call it a day.  
     
    For a budget though.  Look up "Little Blondie" mics.  

    Daniel Rumley
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    #20
    Rimshot
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 20:05:48 (permalink)
    So I received my shipment of the Sampson 7 Drum Kit and 1 condenser sounded great but the other was full of noise.  Now I don't trust them.  So I am returning and going for the Rhode Matched M5's after all.  I will need to add kick and tom mics later.  I did just get a new Shure SM7 for the snare so I am slowly building a better mic selection.
     
    Rimshot
     

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    Rimshot
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 20:09:34 (permalink)
    BTW, as a long time studio drummer in Los Angeles, The AKG 414's were widely used for overheads way back when as well as U47 and U87's in the nicer studios.  When I produced and recorded a jazz album for drummer Billy Higgins, I used all SM57's on his kit including overheads along with a 421 on his kick.  The album is called "Mr. Billy Higgins".  
     
    Rimshot
     
     

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    #22
    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 20:17:05 (permalink)
    Hey Jimmy I don't own the Rode mics myself but I have used them a lot in my job as a sound engineering teacher.  One aspect of our classes is teaching students how to to record a fulll live band with a loud PA on in the room at the same time. (A situation that does happen from time to time) Now it is possible to get pretty decent separation on everything except the drum overheads obviously. They are going to be prone to the PA the most out of nearly all the mics in the room.
     
    I have found if you position the Rode mics slightly out front and pointing inward towards the snare on a slight angle they give an almost amazing amount of drum sound with virtually no PA in the background. I don't know how they do it. They have an amazing ablity to reject unwanted sound for some reason.
     
    I even recorded a very loud band in a very small room once at another campus and we had those as overheads and the same thing resulted. Almost drums only in those mics and not much else. On that day I was expecting the worst in the overheads but was quite amazed at what I heard on playback. There were loud bass and guitar amps right in front of the drums that day.
     
    The mics that Daniel mentioned are beautiful as overheads and so are 451's too but they are hopeless at keeping the PA out of the overhead sound though. They tend to work better when it is either the drums only making sound in the room or most of the sound.

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    Rimshot
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 20:28:14 (permalink)
    Hey Jeff - good to hear!  My budget is so tight that I really try to maximize by purchases for multi-purpose use.  The Sampson kit seemed fun to have if the condensers worked by I am convinced the M5's are the right choice for me now.  Your feedback helps reinforce that too.
     
    I had some fun researching a two mic drum setup.  Some of them sound good.  Here's a good YouTube on it:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV-N_gA6gDI
     
    Here is a pic of Joe Morello with I think a U87 above his kit:
    http://www.drummerworld.com/pics/drumpics2/joemorello.jpg
     
    Here is a good blog on Joe Morrello recording:
    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/343772-how-joe-morellos-drums-recorded-time-out.html
     
    Jimmy
     
     

    Rimshot 

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    #24
    rumleymusic
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/22 22:38:10 (permalink)
    So I received my shipment of the Sampson 7 Drum Kit and 1 condenser sounded great but the other was full of noise.  Now I don't trust them.  So I am returning and going for the Rhode Matched M5's after all.

     
    Not surprised.  Samson is the worst audio company in the business.  Rode is one of the few trustworthy budget makers since their state of the art factory model and quality control are enviable.  

    Daniel Rumley
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    #25
    SvenArne
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    Re: Drum Overhead Mics? 2014/03/26 08:55:10 (permalink)
    bluzdog
    I use a pair of Octava mc-12's also and I like them a lot. They were all the rage for SDC's awhile back.
     



     
    I like them alot for OH duty. Full and smooth! If you need a super bright sound, they'll take a +5 dB, 10 kHz shelf beautifully, but I usually leave the high end as is.
     
    I don't like them for other stuff though (guitar, percussion etc.), too brash and "heavy" sounding for lack of a better word.
     
    Sven





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