Is speaker hum normal?

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mondaydave
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2014/03/14 19:00:50 (permalink)

Is speaker hum normal?

As my post title suggests no matter what I do I have a slight "hum" from my speakers.
 
This is only noticeable when I have no music playing, so I suppose my question is, Is there something wrong causing "hum" or is this normal?
 
I put this down to using cheap gear in the past but I have upgraded quite a bit of my gear recently but the "hum" is still there.
 
Should a studio set up be completely silent when nothing is playing?
 
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/03/14 19:09:28 (permalink)
    Yes a studio setup should be perfectly silent when no music is playing. Anything less is unacceptable in my opinion!
     
    What is your interface. What are your monitors etc.. How are your speakers connected etc... There might be something you can do in terms of linking those two that could eliminate hum. Using balanced lines etc. Possible earth loop hum might be present etc...
     
     

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    mondaydave
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/03/14 19:18:38 (permalink)
    Jeff Evans
    Yes a studio setup should be perfectly silent when no music is playing. Anything less is unacceptable in my opinion!
     
    What is your interface. What are your monitors etc.. How are your speakers connected etc... There might be something you can do in terms of linking those two that could eliminate hum. Using balanced lines etc. Possible earth loop hum might be present etc...
     
     




    Thanks Jeff, That's what I thought.
    My audio interface is an m-audio fasttrack. I know this is a cheap and cheerful interface but could that be the cause?
    I just got a pair of JBL LRS308 monitors but I have them connected using a breakout cable (mini jack - 2 x 1/4 jacks) is that balanced? (excuse my ignorance) 
     
    Should a better interface with 2 xlr outs yield better results?
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/03/14 20:04:19 (permalink)
    Yes that interface is not very pro I guess. A decent interface with balanced outs on TRS jacks would be much better. Mini jack outs are a bit poor IMO.
     
    But you could start by making two leads like this:
     

     
    Except on the unbalanced end that now shows a 1/4" mono jack you need to substitute that for a mono mini jack plug instead. This lead prevents any earths from being used at the speaker end but gets the signal into the balanced part only. The shielding will still work because the shield is still grounded at the balanced end.

    Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface 
     
    Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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    mondaydave
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/03/14 20:27:49 (permalink)
    Jeff, you are a legend! Tell me you didn't just draw this out on my behalf?
     
    Gonna try this. Thanks!!
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/03/14 20:39:54 (permalink)
    No I had to draw it out for someone else on the Presonus forum so I had it already. I have tried to explain this but a picture is worth a thousand words as they say.
     
    Something else too. If you disconnect both speakers completely and plug phones into that interface do you still hear any hum? That will eliminate the interface itself as a possible source of trouble. eg if the hum is still there then it is the interface and not connections between interface and speakers as first thought. If it is silent in that test it means there is another issue connecting to speakers.
     
    There is no guarantee that lead will eliminate the problem either but it does in a lot of cases. It also stops that dreaded laptop noise from getting into mixers too. You just need balanced inputs though that is all.
     
    A handy lead to make is a stereo mini jack out to two balanced TRS 1/4" plugs wiring the same way. Except in the mini jack end the two ring wires are strapped togther and soldered to the sleeve of the stero mini jack.
     
     
     
     

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    Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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    wst3
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/03/15 12:18:14 (permalink)
    Jeff's drawing may help if you have a problem ground loop between the interface and the amplifier.
     
    Here's the thing - ground loops are not bad, and in fact they are virtually unavoidable. The problem really stems from some very poor design/manufacturing choices made by companies that haven't read the AES standards for interconnections yet... well, or ancient Bell and BBC documents (the ancients are stealing our ideas!)

    Before you make up new cables may I suggest a simple test to find the problem?
    Disconnect the amplifier inputs and crank the amplifier all the way up and listen - do you hear hum, or just white noise? If you hear hum then there is a problem between the interface and the amplifier, and Jeff's cable will probably solve it.
     
    If not then the problem exists elsewhere, so you want to add gear back in, one link at a time. So now connect the interface to the amplifier, but leave the rest of the interface connections disconnected. Still no hum? Now add the rest of the interface connections, one at a time. If it turns out that you get hum after adding two more connections then disconnect the first one and see if the hum goes away.
     
    I recently had a problem where I only had hum when I had both left and right line inputs connected to a Presonus Firebox. Following that test procedure I discovered a bad connection is one of my cables. A couple minutes with the soldering iron solved it.

    One last thought (at the risk of repeating myself) DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, USE ANY TRICK THAT DEFEATS THE SAFETY GROUND!!!!!! Sorry, but this is an only wives tale that still floats around the internet from time to time.... so I figured I'd be proactive<G>!

    Power line noise is annoying, but it is usually quite easy to resolve, once you find the source(s). Please let us know how it turns out.

    And if you are looking for some additional reading, the top documents on this topic include (among others):
    Dennis Bohn's Rane Note #110 - a classic, well regarded paper that covers the topic well!
    Bill Whitlock's Troubleshooting Guide, and App Notes on Interconnections and Hum and Buzz (actually, everything on their web site!)
    There are many others, but these will get you started<G>!

    -- Bill
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    #7
    mondaydave
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/04/04 05:15:45 (permalink)
    Thanks for your help guys and sorry for the late reply.
     
    I isolated the problem to my cables using the methods you suggested  - disconnected everything and truning up the volume etc. to test the speaker amps (now why didn't I think of doing that!)
     
    Anyway new cables and problem solved. This hum has annoyed the bejaysus out of me for a long time.
     
    As always I am most grateful 
    #8
    wst3
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/04/04 19:30:58 (permalink)
    I love a happy ending!

    -- Bill
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/04/04 20:51:42 (permalink)
    I was going to say, the Fast track has balanced outputs. Used to own one but got rid of it because it was not quiet. My issue was more of a screaming sound that I later read about being caused by using USB buss power. The pre amps were real sad too, but I mostly used it with the SPDIF and my digital mixer . But you just couldn't get used to that scream in the background. 

    Johnny V  
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    wst3
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/04/05 12:23:52 (permalink)
    Sounds like you were bitten by the dreaded "Pin-1" problem on your Fast Track.
    It is quite simple to fix pin-1 problems on balanced inputs and outputs. It is nearly impossible to fix them yourself on single-ended ports, and sadly Firewire and USB fall into that category. Using local power can help if the device is designed well, it may not help if the designer disregarded the rules<G>!

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/04/06 13:11:52 (permalink)
    No not pin 1, The issue is with USB only, they will scream with nothing plugged in. Worst was it also showed in the SPDIF. This only happens with certain computer MoBo USb connections and did not happen with my laptop. But the device was not great anyhow and had a list of issues so I gave it away and moved on. 

    Johnny V  
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    wst3
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/04/06 13:53:41 (permalink)
    USB is just as susceptible to the Pin-1 problem as any other connection...
     
    In fact you'd be amazed at just how badly one can muck up any interface!!

    -- Bill
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    Cactus Music
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    Re: Is speaker hum normal? 2014/04/06 15:40:46 (permalink)
    Ok I see what you mean now. Thanks for the clarification. 

    Johnny V  
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