Ok Since I'm Here...

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bsteven
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March 25, 14 1:04 PM (permalink)

Ok Since I'm Here...

Just upgraded to X3 due to loyalty invitation.  Thanks.  I haven't really had a chance to try out any of the new features except the comping feature which was quite helpful and worth the upgrade.  I'm looking forward learning to use to the rest of the new features.
But since I am a avid user of the OLD features of Sonar like Staff View, I was quite disappointed to see that the same bugs that existed since X1 (which didn't exist Sonar 8.5) still exist in X3.  I'm talking about the jumbled font when adding a chord to the staff, and the quagmire you can run into if you add lyrics and chords to a melody line with multiple clips. 
 
Yes, I've learned to work around the problem, and I understand it must be very, very, very low on your priority list.  But how difficult could these fixes be since they didn't exist in 8.5 and staff view hasn't changed much if at all since the inception of Sonar?
 
Not going to go into a long rant.  I've learned to accept by now that you just don't care, but that really is disappointing.

 
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    Splat
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 1:09 PM (permalink)
    What you say is probably valid in the days before X3.
     
    Since the takeover by Gibson there have been five service releases in X3. So to say they don't care is silly at this point in time. Sure there are still outstanding issues, in due time I'm sure most of these issues will be fixed. Cakewalk right now seem to be very proactive at this, unfortunately Cakewalk cannot fix all issues overnight and can't please everybody all at once, they have to prioritise what they see is effecting the most amount of users vs impact.

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    #2
    Cactus Music
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 1:28 PM (permalink)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_of_all_trades,_master_of_none
     
    At some point in time the programmers at Cakewalk should have removed a few features and focused on making the most desired features bullet proof. 
    If each of us sat down and made a grocery list of features we would like in a DAW, there would be no two lists that were alike. 
    I can only imagine  they have to sit there and look at those lists and figure out what will "sell". They are paid to do this. It would seem the squeaky wheel does get the grease around here and the Bakers seem to pay attention to all the squeaking here on this forum.
    But personally I think Sonar tries to cover too much ground. As a result they get the software out there before it's been tested in depth. It's a balancing act. Profit won't come to a software company that does not move forward. You want a steady stream of customers. But you need to be careful or word will get out that your product is buggy and to be avoided. 
    That's why possibly 8.5 was the best of that series, they had had over a decade to perfect it.
    The X Series will now have to mature as well.
     
     

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    #3
    slartabartfast
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 1:32 PM (permalink)
    O.K. CAS, blanket denunciation of Cakewalk support is not warranted. But it would be difficult to refute the assertion for anyone who has followed the company since "Cakewalk" (the sequencer) was the flagship product of the company then called Twelve Tone Systems that staff view is not a high priority for either development or support. That seems to be the OP's point, and in my opinion it stands.
    #4
    bsteven
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 2:15 PM (permalink)
    I'm saying they don't care about staff view.  It's obvious they're interested in making money, and the frequent patches for X3 are encouraging (in terms of their responsiveness to NEW problems). The changes they made from 8.5 to X1, however, brought about these problems I mentioned with staff view.  I'm not a programmer, but I have run businesses.  If I broke something that my customers relied on, I would get around to fixing it.  3 paid upgrades later and countless patches, its still not fixed. I'm not willing to give them a pass on this.
     
    For those of us who have been with the program for a while might remember that Cakewalk was a midi sequencer first, and staff view was quite the revelation at the time.  For a songwriter using Sonar, the tool is nearly indispensable since I don't own or play every instrument in my songs, and I rarely use paper.  When I solo with a particular melodic line or write an accompaniment, it is nice to be able to see the chord and the melody. 
     
    Maybe I'm the lone voice in the wilderness, but if you check my threads, staff view is basically the only thing I've complained about with this software since I started using the forum.  I will continue to complain until they bring it at least to the past functionality or perhaps spin off into a Songwriter series that focuses on songwriting and scoring with recording.  Then I will gladly go with them in that direction.  I do appreciate the new features. I'm simply asking for the functionality I paid for a long time ago.
     
     

     
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    mettelus
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 2:29 PM (permalink)
    I think (hope) it is apparent that the bakers have very much been listening to the users and making great strides in things with X3. With limited resources, only so much can be accomplished at a time, and we all have seen many enhancements as well as bug fixes with X3. Some made comments of X3e being "light on enhancements and primarily bug fixes," but it is also pretty standard that major releases = major enhancements and patches = bug fixes. The content of the X3e patch is rather impressive (especially for the 5th patch of a major software release), so I am very hard pressed to believe in "just don't care."
     
    I am not implying that long term issues do not exist in any way, but the trend that has started with X3 is positive and significant. It never hurts to voice requests either... the squeaky wheel gets the oil
     
    Edit: LOL, the OP already squeaked again as I was typing... I need to quit multi-tasking so much.

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    #6
    Andrew Rossa
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 4:35 PM (permalink)
    There's always room for improvement with any product and we are definitely listening. I just wanted to reply to you directly to say we have read your post and appreciate your feedback. We are working hard to improve SONAR and we understand your concerns.
    #7
    brundlefly
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 5:09 PM (permalink)
    bsteven
    I'm talking about the jumbled font when adding a chord to the staff



    I could be wrong, but believe this particular issue was fixed in the X3c update (updates are cumulative so X3e would include it):
     
    • Resolved an issue where the Chord Properties in the Staff View would display the Chord Name improperly (CWBRN-17296, CWBRN-20407, CWBRN-6815, CWBRN-3895)
    This is one of many longstanding issues, some of which preceded X1 and some of which were broken by X1/Skylight that have been fixed by or since the X3 release. So the Bakers are keeping an eye on outstanding issues and getting many of them fixed. The Staff View continues to remain a low priority, however - a subject that has been discussed ad nauseum in previous threads.
     

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    #8
    Splat
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 6:22 PM (permalink)
    Good point, is the OP running X3E? (please update your signature thanks).

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    #9
    bsteven
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 11:47 PM (permalink)
    Well, I'll be da--! When I made the OP, I had just downloaded X3 and found the problems still existed with the chords.  Now that I've downloaded X3e, the chords display correctly.  What I truly appreciate is that someone from Cakewalk replied to my post.  I'm heard, and I'm done!  Thank you, Andrew!

     
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    sharke
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 25, 14 11:52 PM (permalink)
    It's not often Cakewalk make an appearance in staff view threads, so that's definitely encouraging. I'm not saying X4-encouraging, but encouraging nonetheless!

    James
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    SvenArne
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 26, 14 7:01 AM (permalink)
    Cactus Music
    But personally I think Sonar tries to cover too much ground. 

     
    A lot of users keep saying this, but I don't think I agree. I feel that since the X-series, SONAR has started to come more into focus. Cakewalk seem to have stopped prioritising the loop production, live DJ stuff (Matrix, Beatstation etc...) that so many complained about during the last few versions of the pre-X period.
     
    So we're pretty much left with these aspects:
    - Songwriting/composing
    - Production/engineering
    - Post-production
     
    What parts would you rather Cakewalk drop? For me it would be post, but it does not seem to have been a major commitment lately, anyway.
     
    I'm under the impression that Cakewalk have pretty much dropped in-house plugin/aux app developement as well, leaving them to work on the core app and core app only (which, as I see it, is what the X-series has been all about). 
     
    I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty happy with the Bakers' current direction!
     
    Sven





    #12
    Grem
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    Re: Ok Since I'm Here... March 26, 14 8:02 AM (permalink)
    sharke
     
    It's not often Cakewalk make an appearance in staff view threads, so that's definitely encouraging. I'm not saying X4-encouraging, but encouraging nonetheless!





    I was also thinking the same thing. If for nothing else, to let the user base know they are watching and listening.
     
    SvenArne
    Cactus Music
    But personally I think Sonar tries to cover too much ground. 

     
    A lot of users keep saying this, but I don't think I agree.
     

     
    And neither do I think that CW is trying to cover too much. Back when I first came on board with CW, they had just started the audio part of the program. From that point on it has been enhanced so that I can get my songs together in a manner that I never dreamed would be possible.
     
     
    SvenArne
     
    So we're pretty much left with these aspects:
    - Songwriting/composing
    - Production/engineering
    - Post-production
     
    What parts would you rather Cakewalk drop?......
     
    ....I can't speak for everyone, but I'm pretty happy with the Bakers' current direction!
     
    Sven




    I would like all the parts you mention here to stay put!
     
     

    Grem

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    #13
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