fooman
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X3 BSOD
About once every other day, or more depending on the amount I work during the day(s), Sonar X3 crashes to a BSOD. I get a constant loop of the last millisecond or so of wherever I was on playback. Here's what I know of when it happens. - It always happens on playback.
- It's always during a mix session that's 1/2 or more done (meaning heavy plugin usage, session drummer often in use, a lot of frozen tracks, etc).
- It's never happened when I'm tracking in X1. I track on X1 because I can comp/edit WAY faster in track layers, but that's another topic.
- It's happened in every version of X3 that I can remember. X3a-e.
I use X1e 32-bit on a 64-bit W7 PC. I use 32-bit due to lack of time to get certain plugins set up and ported to 64-bit. To read why please see the footnote below. I have 16Gb RAM, but obviously Sonar can't use it with my 32-bit install. I use a Lynx Aurora 16 with a Lynx AES-16. I track and mix at 48K. If anyone has any idea how to help me track down the reason for these crashes please let me know. I would appreciate it very much so, and so would my PC :) ** For the past few months I just don't have much time to be not working when I'm at my PC, so I'm sticking with 32-bit for the foreseeable future. I have a feeling it'll take some time for me to get things set up properly for 64-bit. I know things don't always transition easily 100%, so I need to allow time for some troubleshooting.
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Jim Roseberry
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The looping audio upon crash is the last bit of audio that was in the buffer (looping). BSOD is usually indicative of a hardware or driver issue. In a modern machine, the most likely culprit to fail is a stick of DDR3. Thus, I'd test your RAM to be sure all is ok. I'd follow that up by running a stress-test to make sure the core hardware (CPU, motherboard, RAM) are ok. If the machine passes those tests without a problem, you can rule out the machine itself. Since the issue doesn't happen when tracking (not using much RAM), I have a suspicion that you may be "RAM starving" Sonar when mixing. With a full mix (especially if you're using any virtual instruments), it's really easy to blow thru 4GB of RAM (which is the limit for any 32Bit application). As a test: Install the 64Bit version of Sonar (if not already installed). Open your project in the 32Bit version of Sonar, use the 32Bit plugins mentioned above), then freeze the results and save under a different file name. Now, open this new file using the 64Bit version of Sonar. If you can do this and continue without BSOD, you've found the culprit (RAM starved application). If that's the case, using a 64Bit DAW application is the only solution.
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fooman
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Thank you!!! How do you stress test a machine, other than doing the 64bit test you described later in the reply?
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Jim Roseberry
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fooman Thank you!!! How do you stress test a machine, other than doing the 64bit test you described later in the reply?
You can use Prime95 to stress-test your core hardware. It puts the CPU under 100% load (sustained). Note, keep on eye on CPU temps if you run Prime95.
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Silicon Audio
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If you are getting a BSOD error, you need to tell us the stop code. That will give us a much better idea of what's going on. Have a look for "Nirsoft BlueScreenView" on Google. Make sure to grab the 64-bit version. It will give you more information about the crash and what caused it. As Jim has already said, applications can't cause blue-screens. It is caused by bad hardware or something happening in Kernel mode (bad drivers).
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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Splat
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Silicon Audio If you are getting a BSOD error, you need to tell us the stop code. That will give us a much better idea of what's going on. Have a look for "Nirsoft BlueScreenView" on Google. Make sure to grab the 64-bit version. It will give you more information about the crash and what caused it. As Jim has already said, applications can't cause blue-screens. It is caused by bad hardware or something happening in Kernel mode (bad drivers).
+1. I had an issue like this yesterday, from here I was able to locate the issue was related to mcupdate.dll. From that I gathered that Windows Media centre was trying to update itself and somehow causing the crash. As I don't use Media Centre on my DAW I uninstalled it.... Fingers crossed no more issues. Your issue will be driver related or hardware related. You might want to post the BlueScreenView report here if you can't work it out. Generally the suspect exe/dll's/.sys are at the top of the list. Still often requires some hunches/guesswork though. The windows event viewer often helps as well...
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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jamesyoyo
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Will just about guarantee it is due to your audio interface. I use a Pod X3 and that causes crashes more than Sonar.
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cpkoch
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Had the same issue. Pulled the CPU, fan and heat-sink out of my ASUS CM1630 case and found a lot of crud on the heat-sink. Managed to bend some pins on the CPU when attempting to re-insert it. Consequently I ended up buying a new ASUS M11 series. I've had no recurrence of BSOD. After seeing the buildup of dust and grime on the original CPU's heat-sink, I can't help but believe that it was overheating and causing the BSOD. My rather uninformed guess is that Sonar may overburden the CPU when it is cranking out its stuff. If enough heat energy is not dissipated because of a dirty heat-sink the conditions are then possibly ripe for a BSOD attack. I had similar problems with another computer a few years back that was unrelated to Sonar. Cleaning the guts and the heat-sink fixed it! I'll remain curious as to what you find is at the root of your BSOD atacks.
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fooman
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I haven't been able to do MUCH in terms of troubleshooting this, but I did take a look at the memory used on one culprit project. 3.44Gb of memory used after a fresh restart. I'm assuming that after not restarting my PC for over a week and using it often the memory usage might gradually creep up to the 4GB limit with the 32-bit app like my Sonar install. I also just cleaned my PC's guts this past weekend. Was much overdue. I am almost certain it's not my Lynx drivers. Although I haven't updated the drivers since Sonar X1 or so! Who knows, it's on my list of potentials I guess :)
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Splat
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Well if you haven't updated your drivers for a while that's a red flag. Please run windows update several times as well..
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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fooman
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Auto update is on for windows. Just my lynx drivers. They hadn't released new ones since 2012, however I see that new ones were released in January but don't fix issues relating to my setup according to their release notes, just add new features.
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Splat
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Release notes are just guidelines. Often stuff is left out there is a 99% chance there will be at least one undocumented bugfix. I would install you can always roll back. Also please check the optional windows updates which probably won't be installed. Cheers.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Silicon Audio
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fooman I am almost certain it's not my Lynx drivers. Although I haven't updated the drivers since Sonar X1 or so! Who knows, it's on my list of potentials I guess :)
Without checking your minidump with a tool like BlueScreenView, you are just guessing. Why not take the 5 minutes it will take you to download and run it and get the answer?
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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Splat
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+1 Although bluescreenview gives an idea of what may be happening often doesn't find the smoking gun... And the windows event viewer you need to check.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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cpkoch Had the same issue. Pulled the CPU, fan and heat-sink out of my ASUS CM1630 case and found a lot of crud on the heat-sink. /quote] Blue screens can be caused by overheating the CPU though its rare. Most of the time its a driver crash or something external that causes the driver to crash. BTW make sure you aren't removing the thermal paste from the heatsink! Thats not crud and removing it is guaranteed to make the CPU fail :)
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stevec
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I had to replace the thermal paste in my DAW about a year ago due to overheating, because it actually was reduced to crud.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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mettelus
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Thermal paste loses its ability to transfer heat if it begins to harden/cure, so definitely keep the above comments in mind. If you ever separate that interface always clean and apply new thermal paste.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
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