Helpful ReplyBad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive?

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razor
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2014/04/04 13:11:45 (permalink)

Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive?

Hello--
 
I want to setup some schedules for defragging my hard drives. I have three drives, and one of them is where my Cakewalk projects folders go, with the audio, etc.
 
I seem to recall hearing that you should not defrag your audio drive, but my search of this forum didn't find anything.
 
Is it a bad idea to defrag your audio drive?
 
Thanks,

Stephen Davis
 
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 13:47:03 (permalink)
It sounds like risky, but OTOH, audio drive is the one that gets most fragmented, especially if you regularily remove the unnecessary files. I have defragged mine a few times after cleaning it first. No problems that I noticed.

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kristoffer
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 14:54:06 (permalink)
The only thing I remember hearing, is to not defrag SSD drives. 
 
 

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jcschild
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 15:24:31 (permalink)
you are supposed to be directing these type questions at us.. not the forums where you may or may not get correct advice..
 
yes you can/should as long as its not SSD.. but no where are frequently as say 10 yrs ago..
and ideally keep your drive no more than 65% full once every 3 months should be plenty

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razor
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 15:54:04 (permalink)
jcschild
you are supposed to be directing these type questions at us.. not the forums where you may or may not get correct advice..
 
yes you can/should as long as its not SSD.. but no where are frequently as say 10 yrs ago..
and ideally keep your drive no more than 65% full once every 3 months should be plenty


You lost me on where to direct my posts...

Anyway, my day job is working for a hard drive company and you don't even have to defrag an SSD because they don't fragment-which is nice

What I wanted to confirm is that X2 won't potentially get messed up accessing audio files from a defrag.

Sounds like it's a non issue.

Thank you and thanks to everyone.

Stephen Davis
 
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spacealf
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 19:49:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2014/04/04 23:09:31
I just got done defragging my regular harddrive partition with Cakewalk Projects whatever on it. I always do. Never had a problem.
 

 
 
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slartabartfast
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 19:54:18 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby razor 2014/04/04 23:09:24
Unless you have stopped it, your Win7 installation is probably already defragmenting your drives on a schedule without your knowledge. It is set to do so by default, and to do a bunch of other things as well. Type task scheduler into your search box to see what might be running without your knowledge. There is no reason not to defragment your hard drives, except that if a crash occurs during the operation, some data could be lost. If you want to control that, remove the scheduled task, do a backup of critical data on the drive, then do a manual defragment before you put new valuable data in place.
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razor
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 23:11:47 (permalink)
slartabartfast
Unless you have stopped it, your Win7 installation is probably already defragmenting your drives on a schedule without your knowledge. It is set to do so by default, and to do a bunch of other things as well. Type task scheduler into your search box to see what might be running without your knowledge. There is no reason not to defragment your hard drives, except that if a crash occurs during the operation, some data could be lost. If you want to control that, remove the scheduled task, do a backup of critical data on the drive, then do a manual defragment before you put new valuable data in place.


Very good points. My defrag was scheduled for 1 AM when the computer is off, so no defragging has happened yet. I also looked at the task scheduler and Google updates had 2 entries and HP (my printer) has some customer participation thing scheduled. All three are disabled now.
 
Thanks!

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/04 23:14:29 (permalink)
jcschild
you are supposed to be directing these type questions at us.. not the forums where you may or may not get correct advice..
 
yes you can/should as long as its not SSD.. but no where are frequently as say 10 yrs ago..
and ideally keep your drive no more than 65% full once every 3 months should be plenty


OH, LOL. I couldn't tell on my phone that it was the Scott that I bought my DAW from. Now I know what you mean.
 
Ah, I love the CW forums. Been coming here since there was an Internet.  I always come here!

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/05 11:01:21 (permalink)


Scott
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Jay Tee 4303
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/05 15:46:37 (permalink)
Definitely back up before de-frag, no matter what's on the drive.

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razor
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/05 15:53:08 (permalink)
Jay Tee 4303
Definitely back up before de-frag, no matter what's on the drive.


You got that right!

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Kev999
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/05 19:19:10 (permalink)
razor
Jay Tee 4303
Definitely back up before de-frag, no matter what's on the drive.


You got that right!



Where's this coming from?

The only problems with defragging that I have ever heard about were always associated with third-party defragging software.

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Jay Tee 4303
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/06 10:06:24 (permalink)
Depending on the level of fragmentation, you are going to move everything on your hard drive to a different place, including parts of the OS, and in the process, data from target locations can be "erased" and held in buffer, while new material fills its spot, before being itself written to a new area.
 
You are accessing many, if not all areas of the drive, and the heads are in constant motion throughout. From the position that a parked head has zero chance of a head crash, defrag ops represent the opposite end of the probability spectrum.
 
Defrag routines are mature, and largely robust, I don't recall any recent problems with mine, but I have lost entire drives, and many files, over the course of decades, and anytime I move quantities of data, including major copy operations, I back up first.
 
Its your data. Nobody cares about it as much as you (except the NSA, and they already have multiple copies that you aren't allowed to access). It's akin to emptying your house into your backyard, so you can reorganize it piece by piece throughout. If you are comfortable parking your wife's diamonds and your collection of gold coins out by the swingset with the rest of the Tupperware bins, till you have the room they are destined for cleaned and organized, have at it. I prefer to avoid risk, build up good karma, and save edgy maneuver till I really need it.

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Kev999
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/06 16:04:54 (permalink)
That's a dramatic description of something that ought to be just a routine operation.
 

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Jay Tee 4303
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/06 19:54:33 (permalink)
Kev999
That's a dramatic description of something that ought to be just a routine operation.
 


When I cut my teeth in IT, system problems grounded a $5 billion dollar fleet of commercial aircraft, (new, financed, 73s, 75s and a handful of L-10s) and flight ops called their VP, who called my VP, and we had all night, just the two of us, to decide who screwed up, (me), who was gonna fix it yesterday, (me), and who was going to pay for the lost ass-miles, (superficially, me).
 
It had it's dramatic moments, but not as dramatic as I see here, when months or years worth of work disappears.
 
YMMV.
 
:-)

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/06 22:47:48 (permalink)
Kev999
That's a dramatic description of something that ought to be just a routine operation.



Yes it is perhaps overly dramatic. In actual fact your computer is not dumping everything in the backyard, it is moving a few things at a time to clear out space and replacing them in the cleared space. Most of your files remain intact and in place during these moves, and the only ones at risk of loss during a crash are the ones that are actually being written. But if it happens to be a critical system file that gets corrupted, you may effectively lose the use of your computer. 
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/07 09:30:07 (permalink)
back up should be in place regardless, however I have NEVER seen a defrag cause dataloss

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Jay Tee 4303
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/07 12:39:11 (permalink)
jcschild
back up should be in place regardless, however I have NEVER seen a defrag cause dataloss


I have. To be fair, the drive was already thrashing, which prompted the defrag. It got to clickin and whirrin and never quit, that was it. Hung the defrag mid process and I never accessed anything on that drive again. Fortunately it was backed up.

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/07 13:57:45 (permalink)
The only time I had a harddrive fail is on the C:\ primary partition. I keep nothing on it (except the little programs may put there). All my files of different programs are on different partitions. I never had other partitions fail - only the C:\ Primary partition. If wanting to copy files that can be done though by having another harddrive and copying the files.
In fact they should not be fragmented with the copying of the files, because each file is transfer as a unit to the other harddrive (partition). But then I do not keep soft synths and many things like that for music. Just the Project files and all of that with Cakewalk Projects and the program on the partition. And if having a second harddrive it is easy to copy the partition to another partition on the second harddrive and have a backup (they won't be fragmented or at least i am thinking that way).
Well, back to not all so many projects in Sonar. Maybe someday. And on my old XP computer I have ran that way for now at least 7 years (six probably actually) with no problems at any time. Either the harddrive goes after a couple of years or it may last for 10 years, but then I suppose I do not use the harddrives that much with the partitions except the C:\ drive Primary Partition. That fails, the rest of the harddrive can still be read and tranferred to a different harddrive, after getting a new harddrive to put the OS on and restart the computer and take out the what was the second harddrive (if only two) and putting in the wrecked harddrive and transferring the files on the rest of the partitions that had everything else there. Of course there is in-stalling software again, but with the Sonar Projects, it is just transferring (copying) the files to the new harddrive on the same letter drive partition.
?? To each their own.
 

 
 
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jcschild
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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/07 14:52:28 (permalink)
Jay Tee
that's what I figured happened.. next time freeze it first

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/07 15:43:54 (permalink)
jcschild
Jay Tee
that's what I figured happened.. next time freeze it first


...and last, and in between, in triplicate, w a copy offsite.
 
Yessir, nobody has to tell me twice!

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/08 18:38:53 (permalink)
I lost my database 2 times.
first in 2000 under raid 10. flashed the firmware on the raid card... oops..
at that time I had floppy back ups (3 sets)
all corrupt .
we were able to rebuild the database from a old backup  almost completely, had to manually enter 3 months worth of data.
 
last time was last yr. I had/have.. 2 x raid 6 internal, data backs up to 2nd raid.. plus redundant server with single raid 6,
plus external drobo raid 5, plus external single drive for off site..
 
we had numerous back ups sadly every one corrupted as my SQL file got corrupt and kept getting worse.. so I was backed up 6 ways to sunday to no avail..
we were able to rebuild the database almost completely, had to manually enter 3 months worth of data.
same as in 2000..  
now we check the database integrity constantly..  ::sigh:: another lesson learned! shut us down from order processing for a week..

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/10 12:40:33 (permalink)
Just a clarification, People are mentioning defraging corrupting system files. When I use the windows defrag it shows a block of system data that cannot be touched. It is labeled "Unmovable Files" and is green. Is this not the windows system files?  

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Re: Bad Idea to Defrag Your Audio Drive? 2014/04/10 12:52:43 (permalink)
Hey folks. The replies are very interesting and I just wanted to post that the reason I haven't been participating lately is because my original question only had to do with defragging a drive where the audio files are--not system or other drives.
 
FYI--

Stephen Davis
 
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