aglewis723
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Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
Hello,
Just wondering why only some plugins always cause a lot of latency. For instance, I can add reverbs, delays, sonitus EQ, no problem, but the minute I add in LP64-EQ, I hit a note on the keyboard and it comes out very late!
Is there something different with this plug in? There's a few others I can't think of now that this happens with too.
Thank you,
Adam
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scook
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 14:04:07
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☄ Helpfulby mettelus 2014/04/08 14:04:10
It is part of the plug-in's design. The plug-in needs a look-ahead buffer to do it's job. The latency is documented in the plug-in help.
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paulo
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 14:21:36
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I think that one is intended more as a mixing stage plug in than a real time recording effect. There are indeed some others like that - perfect space is one that springs to mind - save 'em for when you're done with tracking or bypass them while you're tracking.
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brundlefly
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 14:34:07
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Just to be clear, the plugin is adding latency to the audio output of the synth, not the MIDI driving it.
Also, be aware that adding a plugin that uses a look-ahead buffer anywhere in the project is going to trigger SONAR's automatic Plugin Delay Compensation, delaying all audio sources to maintain sync with the track/bus that has the PDC-inducing FX on it. This means that putting a Transient Shaper (another common culprit) on a drum track, for example, is going to add latency to synths as well.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 15:47:14
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☼ Best Answerby aglewis723 2014/04/08 16:03:54
Yup - now, if you are done (REALLY done) with recording, and moving on to mixing, then it is just fine to use these latency-inducing plugins, like Boost 11, Perfect Space, etc., as long as you make your ASIO Buffer Size large enough to handle it.
Once mixing, having a GIANT latency is fine. Latency is really only bothersome if you are trying to record with a large amount of latency.
So, IF you are starting to mix, adjust your ASIO Buffer Size upward - if needed all the way up to 1024, and load those plugins in and you should be OK.
Just know that if you then have to go back and record something, that you will then have to swap out those plugins and drop your latency way back down to be able to deal with latency while tracking.
This back and forth thing with the latency settings is a normal part of moving between tracking (recording), and mixing/mastering.
You definitely want to avoid trying to record with any plugins loaded into the project that use look-ahead processing. They are just not meant for it - they are intended for the mixing/mastering process.
I hope that helps,
Bob Bone
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aglewis723
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 16:06:37
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Thank you all for the help! :)
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 16:08:07
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robert_e_bone
Just know that if you then have to go back and record something, that you will then have to swap out those plugins and drop your latency way back down to be able to deal with latency while tracking. If it's just something small that needs to be overdubbed I simply hit the Global Fx bypass button ('E'), record the part then re-enable Fx.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 16:11:47
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My pleasure - I have been helped countless times by folks, some of which are no longer with us, and out of respect and remembrance for them, and because they took the time to help me, I choose to help others when I can. :)
I have to scoot for a few hours, but will check back when I return and see where this thread is at then.
Bob Bone
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Kev999
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 16:13:14
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scook
...The latency is documented in the plug-in help.
Unfortunately it's easy to get caught out and unwittingly insert a high-latency effect in the early stages of a project. It would be nice if these particular plugins were somehow flagged.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 17:44:19
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Since
1. it's quite variable per plugin,
2. there is a finite number of plugins,
3. you can notice instantly if it's a problem or not, and
4. you're blessed with a memory,
I don't see the problem. It's just part of the job.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 22:20:01
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You could separate plugins by category, keeping those meant for mixing/mastering separate from those usable during recording, which would develop over time, as you discovered which ones worked best for tracking and which worked best for mixing/mastering.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Anderton
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/08 22:43:17
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Tip: If you turn off a plug-in with a long lookahead, the latency will likely still be there. Toggle the DPC button (on and off) and that will take the plug-in out of the equation.
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Kev999
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/09 05:48:44
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Sanderxpander
4. you're blessed with a memory,
That's the weak link.
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Scoot
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/09 06:07:13
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robert_e_bone
This back and forth thing with the latency settings is a normal part of moving between tracking (recording), and mixing/mastering.
When I use ASIO, the latency setting are on my Quad-Capture. When I adjust those, I getr a warning telling me to restart my program using it. Is there a way to apply Sonar to ASIO changes without restarting it?
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paulo
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/09 07:22:17
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Scoot
robert_e_bone
This back and forth thing with the latency settings is a normal part of moving between tracking (recording), and mixing/mastering.
When I use ASIO, the latency setting are on my Quad-Capture. When I adjust those, I getr a warning telling me to restart my program using it. Is there a way to apply Sonar to ASIO changes without restarting it?
I avoid fiddling wirth latency settings all the time by using a "tracking mix" in a separate track in the project for any additional tracking once latency starts to become an issue, which goes direct to the main out and then just press E to bypass all fx while tracking. I use WDM/KS and never have to adjust the latency from the fastest setting whether mixing or tracking. @ Anderton - thanks for that tip - I jumped from 8.5 to X3 and didn't even know what that button was for and never bothered to look it up as I already had enough to figure out.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Why do SOME plug-ins cause major MIDI latency?
2014/04/09 09:56:15
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The general recommendation, as I have always understood it, is to power cycle the audio interface after adjusting its settings, which will get a nice fresh chunk of memory allocated per the new settings.
This can be done by either a power button on the interface, or if it does not have one and is USB-connected, unplugging the USB cord and plugging it back in will reload the drivers and achieve the same results.
For Fire Wire-connected interfaces, or PCI/PCIe-connected devices, one may need to reboot the PC.
I generally reboot the PC myself and power=cycle my interface (it has a power switch), which is no big deal, as I only really change settings at this point when moving between tracking and mixing/mastering. (to set the ASIO Buffer Size low or high as needed).
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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