Bort
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/12 22:44:07
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A couple of thoughts.
1. Your latency settings seem to give you a little too much latency for proper recording without dropouts/crackles and such. I would suggest you trim that ASIO Buffer Size from 192 to 128, which should bring your Total Roundtrip Latency down to around 10 milliseconds, which is a pretty reasonable balance.
2. Is it possible that your default Windows audio device is also your audio interface? If so, some Windows application (or Windows itself) may have gotten hold of your audio interface, and in ASIO mode only 1 application can be in control.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 00:25:45
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1. I changed 192 to 128 and get same error.
2. No the windows default audio device is set to the PC's internal sound card which is different than this USB interface. Also the Kontrol Audio 6 control panel shows the number of clients connected to it. The number is shown as 0 clients before I launch SONAR. After I launch SONAR the number changes to 1 client.
BTW, the manual of this interface states that the driver supports multiple clients. In fact the Synthogy Ivory VSTI I use comes with a client which also uses ASIO and works together with the windows sounds in which case the control panel shows 2 clients. So the problem seems to be SONAR itself. It won't event work if it is the sole client while other VSTI hosts work fine even in multi client mode.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 06:33:53
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I am sorry if I inferred that the observation I made about your ASIO Buffer Size had anything to do with your error. It does not, and is a completely separate issue. I just happened to notice from your listed settings that your total roundtrip latency was up over 15 milliseconds, and latency that high produces an audible lag between playing a note and hearing it play back through Sonar while recording. You want to try to keep your total roundtrip latency down to around or just under 10 milliseconds. A sample rate of either 44.1 k or 48 k, record bit-depth of 24 bits, and an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 should get you down to somewhere between 9.3 and 10.5 milliseconds, and that should eliminate that audible 'lag' or any dropouts or crackles. So, again, the above has nothing to do with the error you posted - it was just something else I happened to see. Sorry for any confusion the above may have caused. NOW, with regard to your reported issue: 1. I found some info on the Cakewalk web site that was referencing the Unable to Open Audio Device error message you posted this thread about. Here is that link: https://www.cakewalk.com/Support/kb/reader.aspx/2003174 2. Just curious - what is your Render Bit Depth set to? (Edit>Preferences>File>Audio Data). This defaults to 32-bit, and I have never changed it, but did see a post where someone got your same error message when they had it set to 64-bits, and it went away when they changed it back to 32-bits. 3. Is it possible that the audio interface is plugged into a different USB port than the one it was in during the driver installation? Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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LunaTech
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 08:34:15
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Hi Bort,
I have seen similar issues when opening projects that are not set to your device settings. IE... old project recorded at sample rates greater than your indicated 44k settings. Does a new project open with the same error?
"Life could capture me with songs of innocence... And enrapture me with pleasures galore... Suddenly it could all quickly fade away... But I'm not surprised any more...." Sonar Platinum Pro- Win 10 64- I7 6800k - Asus - 32gb DDR4-SB ZX sound card (cd output to mixer)- Toshiba 960gb SSD (OS - Audio APPs)- 4TB Seagate (Storage/ App Content)- M-Audio Keystation 88 Pro - Akai MPD 232 - Zed R16 - PT 12 - A&H QU 24- Axiom 61 - XD 80usb "When He is all you have, He is everything you need"
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 08:55:04
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So I got it to work. The problem was that I was opening a project that had a recording with a higher sampling rate made previously with the internal card on my PC motherboard. I did that before I got this interface. This error is a bit too broad. They should make it more descriptive.
Although it works now, I get crackling during live piano play with Ivory VSTI and also lots of crackling when I move the volume sliders on any of the tracks or when I jump the play marker. My cheap internal Realtek sound card was cleaner than this it only buzzed every minute or so. This one crackles continuously.
Had to move the sample rate up to 96000 Hz and buffers to 192 for the cracking to go away. It's now gone during play but still there for the volume sliders and play marker moves. I am not impressed with this so called better audio interface.
Any other tricks I should try?
My "Record Bit Depth" is 16 and "Render Bit Depth" is 32. How do these relate to the "Audio Driver Bit Depth" which is at 24 and grayed out (can't be changed)? The transport display shows 96/16. Should these be different and why can't I change the "Audio Driver Bit Depth"?
Tried both "64 bit double precision engine" on and off. It makes no difference.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 10:52:52
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1. It would have been helpful to know you were opening an existing project, rather than just trying to start Sonar. The error message is accurate - a lack of information on what you were doing made it more difficult to nail down the cause.
2. Your settings, or plugins, are what is causing the crackles you hear. I suggest the following settings: Sample Rate (both Sonar and interface must match) of either 44.1 k or 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128, record bit-depth of 24 bits - try to get your Total Roundtrip Latency down to around 10 milliseconds or a tiny bit less. Please note that these settings are reasonable for recording, but will you will need to bump up ASIO Buffer Size to possibly as much as 1024 when you begin mixing.
3. I do not know why they have the grayed out bit-depth displayed, but in any case that is not where it gets set/changed. To change the record bit-depth, go to Edit>Preferences>File>Audio Data, and you will see it there.
4. As far as 'tricks to try', I would suggest you invest some time in reading the documentation, or working through some of the tutorials, buying one of the well-written books on Sonar, watching the numerous free videos, buying some of the pro videos, or at the very least hitting F1 to pull up context help documentation for whatever screen you have up and are struggling with. You can either remain 'not impressed' with things, or you can educate yourself enough on the products you are using. It's your choice.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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scook
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 11:01:56
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The driver bit depth is often grayed out. The driver bit depth is fixed. Since it is fixed at 24, this should not be a problem . As Bob points out, the record bit depth needs to be set elsewhere.
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 22:02:07
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robert_e_bone
1. It would have been helpful to know you were opening an existing project, rather than just trying to start Sonar. The error message is accurate - a lack of information on what you were doing made it more difficult to nail down the cause.
Had I known that this could have even remotely been the cause, I would have mentioned it. I have a lot of experience building high performance gaming PCs but have never experienced a change of hardware render any software created project obsolete. I will keep this in mind going forward. robert_e_bone
2. Your settings, or plugins, are what is causing the crackles you hear. I suggest the following settings: Sample Rate (both Sonar and interface must match) of either 44.1 k or 48 k, ASIO Buffer Size of 128, record bit-depth of 24 bits - try to get your Total Roundtrip Latency down to around 10 milliseconds or a tiny bit less. Please note that these settings are reasonable for recording, but will you will need to bump up ASIO Buffer Size to possibly as much as 1024 when you begin mixing.
I don't do any analog recording so my main focus is tuning for live play with MIDI backup tracks playing simultaneously. I tried 44.1k and 48k but I seem to get better latency at 96000Hz so I think its OK to stick with that. With this sample rate, anything below 192 ASIO buffer size gives me crackling during live play. At 192 I get clean live play with round trip latency of 6ms. However I can't get rid of the slight crackling and popping noises during bus volume slides and transport jumps no matter what setting rate or buffer sizes I use (I tried them all). robert_e_bone
3. I do not know why they have the grayed out bit-depth displayed, but in any case that is not where it gets set/changed. To change the record bit-depth, go to Edit>Preferences>File>Audio Data, and you will see it there.
Since I only do MIDI recordings this should not matter for me right? robert_e_bone
4. As far as 'tricks to try', I would suggest you invest some time in reading the documentation, or working through some of the tutorials, buying one of the well-written books on Sonar, watching the numerous free videos, buying some of the pro videos, or at the very least hitting F1 to pull up context help documentation for whatever screen you have up and are struggling with. You can either remain 'not impressed' with things, or you can educate yourself enough on the products you are using. It's your choice.
I did most of that except buy the SONAR books. "Not impressed" was a little too strong. Was just surprised that the crappy sound card on my motherboard had no noise issues with bus volume slides using the ASIO4All driver unlike this better interface I got. Don't get me wrong it had other bigger problems.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 22:33:15
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Thank you for the detailed responses. :)
OK - on the matter of the crackles and latency - it was not evident in your response that when you tried 44.1 k and 48 k that you did so while ALSO using an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 at the same time.
I run with: Sample Rate = 48 k, record bit-depth of 24-bits, ASIO Buffer Size of 128, and I get a Total Roundtrip Latency of just under 10 milliseconds, AND more importantly - no dropouts/crackles/lag.
Since I did see from your content a test where you precisely matched my settings and then posted the Total Roundtrip Latency value on your system while running at those settings, I still politely ask you to run this exact test and then post back the precise results for that test, along with the Total Roundtrip Latency when running with these settings. Please please please run this test.
I will look for your posted results from the above - and again, thanks for hanging in there :)
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/13 22:35:55
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I have to also ask you for the test I asked you to run again for the 44.1 k or 48 k sample rate, and the 128 ASIO Buffer Size, to please run the test with NO effects plugins loaded anywhere into the project.
Certain types of plugins can wreak havoc on dropouts and crackles and such, so I would like ALL effects plugins removed during the test.
Sorry I forgot to mention that in the last post.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/15 07:07:38
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robert_e_bone
OK - on the matter of the crackles and latency - it was not evident in your response that when you tried 44.1 k and 48 k that you did so while ALSO using an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 at the same time.
I tried every single permutation that this interface supports. 44100, 48000, 88200, and 96000 Hz with every single buffer size (64...-->...2048). That's a total of 36 permutations. All have intermittent pops. robert_e_bone
I run with: Sample Rate = 48 k, record bit-depth of 24-bits, ASIO Buffer Size of 128, and I get a Total Roundtrip Latency of just under 10 milliseconds, AND more importantly - no dropouts/crackles/lag.
Since I did see from your content a test where you precisely matched my settings and then posted the Total Roundtrip Latency value on your system while running at those settings, I still politely ask you to run this exact test and then post back the precise results for that test, along with the Total Roundtrip Latency when running with these settings. Please please please run this test.
OK, I tested 48000 at 128 and get a round trip latency of 7ms. I think I am satisfied with the latency. It's the random pops that I can't seem to get rid of. It may be that this interface is just not good. I am thinking of returning it and getting a Focusrite Scarlett 6i6. I have seen reviews with others having the same problem. What I like about NI Komplete is that you can run both a DAW on ASIO and your other PC sounds simultaneously (multi-client). Don't know if Focusrite can do this?
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/15 10:22:42
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Thanks for going through all of that.
If you are running at around 10 milliseconds and still having pops, then perhaps something is wrong with the interface.
You have ZERO effects plugins in this project? Any 32-bit soft synths?
IF you have any plugins, what happens if you run at the 48 k 128 combo, and hit 'E' on your computer keyboard to bypass all effects? (hit 'E' again after testing to enable the effects again).
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/15 10:27:41
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Have you tried downloading and running DPC Latency Checker? This is a freeware application that you would run with Sonar not running, that would measure and report on your computer's basic ability to handle audio streaming applications, such as Sonar. For example, lots of folks have powerful computers, but if they have Wi-Fi adapters, those adapters frequently cause massive latency spikes, which make it impossible to track cleanly due to lag and dropouts. (the fix for them is to temporarily disable their Wi-Fi adapter just before launching Sonar, then enabling it again right after finishing the Sonar session). You can get DPC Latency Checker here: http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml The idea is to run DPC Latency Checker for 3-4 minutes without Sonar running, then post back with the results. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/16 02:49:53
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robert_e_bone
You have ZERO effects plugins in this project? Any 32-bit soft synths?
I am only running a single VSTI (Synthogy Ivory) with no effects. The VSTI has a built in reverb but I don't thing this is the problem because when I use my so called "crappy" Realtek sound card that's on my motherboard I get no pops. Just pure and clean sound. The only reason I got the NI Komplete Audio 8 is because its drivers support muti-client and the ASIO4All driver I was using with my stock card did not have this feature. robert_e_bone
IF you have any plugins, what happens if you run at the 48 k 128 combo, and hit 'E' on your computer keyboard to bypass all effects? (hit 'E' again after testing to enable the effects again).
I don't have any effects.
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/16 03:04:35
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robert_e_bone
Have you tried downloading and running DPC Latency Checker? This is a freeware application that you would run with Sonar not running, that would measure and report on your computer's basic ability to handle audio streaming applications, such as Sonar.
Yes I ran this for 20 minutes and it was in the green the whole time. Latency hovers around 100 micro-seconds with an absolute max of 212 micro-seconds. Heard about seven small pops in that time. robert_e_bone
For example, lots of folks have powerful computers, but if they have Wi-Fi adapters, those adapters frequently cause massive latency spikes, which make it impossible to track cleanly due to lag and dropouts.
Yep, I read about the Wi-Fi problem. I have no Wi-Fi. This is a desktop with a hard wired network cable.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/16 08:04:19
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@Bort, quoting you from your above post: "Yes I ran this for 20 minutes and it was in the green the whole time. Latency hovers around 100 micro-seconds with an absolute max of 212 micro-seconds. Heard about seven small pops in that time."
So, you heard pops while running DPC Latency Checker, with Sonar not even running? That sounds like maybe there is something wrong with the interface itself.
The latency values you post as reported by DPC Latency Checker are fine, and your computer should have no problems with audio caused by latency. (If you had seen recurring red spikes, for example - where latency was over 1000 us - that would have indicated something in your system was causing enough of a problem to where you would not be able to run software like Sonar without dropouts/lag).
So, as I indicated above, it sure seems to me like there is something wrong with the interface itself.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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ChristopherM
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/16 10:32:51
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I was considering buying KA6 recently, but I decided against, partly on the strength of the negative comments on the NI user forum at http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/forums/ni-audio-interfaces.142/ . Probably not what you want to hear, I know. Edit ... Why, I just saw that a user called Bortx has a spookily similar problem to yours, Bort! So I guess you have already soaked up the atmosphere.
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Anderton
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/16 10:55:02
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I highly recommend de-installing ASIO4ALL as a test (you can always re-install it). I have run into interfaces where just having ASIO4ALL installed on the machine interferes with an interface's native drivers. The symptoms are the same as you describe - an inability to get decent latency settings without crackles and pops. As soon as I removed ASIO4ALL (de-selecting it is not enough), the interfaces were able to achieve low latencies and no crackling.
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/17 03:16:58
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robert_e_bone
So, you heard pops while running DPC Latency Checker, with Sonar not even running? That sounds like maybe there is something wrong with the interface itself.
No, I had SONAR running as well as the DPC Latency Checker. Both running together. That's how they say you should test it. robert_e_bone
The latency values you post as reported by DPC Latency Checker are fine, and your computer should have no problems with audio caused by latency. (If you had seen recurring red spikes, for example - where latency was over 1000 us - that would have indicated something in your system was causing enough of a problem to where you would not be able to run software like Sonar without dropouts/lag).
So, as I indicated above, it sure seems to me like there is something wrong with the interface itself.
Yes that's what I think too. I am not sure there is something wrong with this particular unit or just with the design itself. I think it was a bad decision to have this unit be powered solely from the USB. To me it seems like they had to make some compromises to make this work. A victim of this decision is the very low max volume on the headphone output. As I read more about this unit on other forums and reviews, many report having similar problems. Have seen some stating that there are USB power grounding and not enough power issues. Some have solved this with USB hubs that can pump more power into the unit. I have tried this too and it didn't work. I think I am going to return this and get a Focusrite 6i6. Any experience with those?
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Bort
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/17 03:21:26
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Anderton
I highly recommend de-installing ASIO4ALL as a test (you can always re-install it). I have run into interfaces where just having ASIO4ALL installed on the machine interferes with an interface's native drivers. The symptoms are the same as you describe - an inability to get decent latency settings without crackles and pops. As soon as I removed ASIO4ALL (de-selecting it is not enough), the interfaces were able to achieve low latencies and no crackling.
Yep, you better believe that the first thing I did before installing the drivers for the NI Audio 6, is to uninstall the ASIO4All I had previously used. I did not want a conflict either.
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Jekyll Vance
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/17 08:13:49
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I also have NIKA6 and satisfied by it, no clicks and crackles when using ASIO.
If you experience clicks when moving volume sliders, this can be connected with your video card drivers (I had similar problem on another system back in the days). Try to update your video drivers or fully remove them and see if this changes anything.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: Error with Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 interface
2014/04/17 09:54:16
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@Bort - the idea behind my suggestion of you testing with DPC Latency Checker with Sonar NOT running, is to see if there are things outside of Sonar, but present on your system, that are interfering with the kinds of processing (streaming audio) that Sonar does.
If issues are found outside of Sonar, it means you have some things to iron out in your system, independently of Sonar.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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