Instruments Question

Author
Corribus
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 7
  • Joined: 2014/04/08 22:05:04
  • Status: offline
2014/04/08 22:07:59 (permalink)

Instruments Question

I know this is kind of a noobish question, but: I am about to conclude my trial run of Sonar and I after a bumpy beginning I like the program a lot. Currently I am using the midi instruments available with my digital piano, and while they are passable on average, I do wish I had more and better options. I got to figuring that since they're all just digital samples, there must be digital instrument packages you can download and use right from your computer. I did some cursory sleuthing around the internet and found VSTIs, which I guess are the digital instrument collections I want and which I guess I can interface with Sonar (correct me please if I'm wrong).  But digging any further than that got me into a confusing world of VSTs, 95% do who-knows-what. All I really want are some nice instruments and other sound effects - I don't need any supercomplex mixing functions or skins or anything. Can anyone boil it down for me, maybe make a suggestion for what might satisfy my needs? It doesn't have to be free, but on the other hand, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on these either.
 
(I found Dimension Pro here on the Cakewalk website - is this what I'm after? Are there other options around that are less expensive?)
#1

20 Replies Related Threads

    57Gregy
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14404
    • Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
    • Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/09 01:06:10 (permalink)
    Welcome to the forum.
    There are several VST instruments included with SONAR. Which ones you have depend on which version of SONAR you're using.
    Click the Insert button at the top, then Soft Synths to see which ones you have.
    Read more on using software synthesizers in the Help files.
    If you're using XP, you can check out the great (and free!) Proteus VX. There are tons of other synths available on the internet, from free to thousands of dollars.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #2
    Corribus
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7
    • Joined: 2014/04/08 22:05:04
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/09 23:02:04 (permalink)
    Thanks for the quick response. Care to recommend a few of those instruments? I'm not looking for anything crazy. Just solid instruments, percussion, some decent pads and leads.
     
    I'm running Windows 7 64 bit, but I also have a laptop with 32 bit if that extends my options any.
    #3
    RobertB
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11256
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
    • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/09 23:52:14 (permalink)
    Timothy, what are your system specs? edit:answered while I was typing.
    In particular, your OS and interface(if any).
    Will your digital piano function as a MIDI controller?
    RE the bumpy start, we all had that. It does get better, really.
     
    VSTs come in basically two flavors, VST Effects, and VST Instruments(aka Soft Synths).
    DimPro is nice, and Cakewalk offers some free expansion packs to give it an even broader range of sounds.
    It is a worthwhile addition to your arsenal, imo, and will cover a lot of the sounds you seem to be looking for.
    I'm a big fan of Proteus that Greg mentioned. I'm still using it on a Vista machine, but I don't know that it is faring well under the newer operating systems.
     
    Based on what you've outlined so far, I might lean toward X3(basic version) and DimPro.
    Maybe X3 Studio. It does bring some nice stuff to the table.
    Be sure to leave some room in the budget for an interface( if you don't already have one).
    This is critical for playing/recording soft synths real-time.
    The built-in sound card in your computer will most likely not cut it.
     
    post edited by RobertB - 2014/04/09 23:55:39

    My Soundclick Page
    SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #4
    57Gregy
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14404
    • Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
    • Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/10 09:35:21 (permalink)
    Corribus
    Thanks for the quick response. Care to recommend a few of those instruments? I'm not looking for anything crazy. Just solid instruments, percussion, some decent pads and leads.
     
    I'm running Windows 7 64 bit, but I also have a laptop with 32 bit if that extends my options any.




    What version of SONAR are you running?
    Is the 32-bit computer XP, Vista or W7 or 8?
    What VSTis are listed under Insert in your program?
    I have checked out soft synths on the 'net, but other than Proteus, I've never used any, except to try out. I use the sounds of my keyboard, mostly. Google "free soft synths" and you'll get tons of results.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #5
    Corribus
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7
    • Joined: 2014/04/08 22:05:04
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/10 21:07:22 (permalink)
    Thanks, some really helpful responses.

    Right now I'm still using the trial version of Sonar. I imagine I'll probably end up buying the program because I like it despite the very steep learning curve (and I am a previous Cakewalk owner - tho my last version was Cakewalk Pro Audio 4 or something, like 15 years ago). Currently I have it interfaced with my digital piano (Kawai CN34), which has a few hundred built in instruments of varying quality. I had a bunch of old midi files I created with my old version of Cakewalk that I wanted to use as a starting point, so I loaded them into Sonar Trial, and used my CN34's instrument suite for playback through the piano (which I also used to record mp3 files). After a whole lot of tweaking, I've been fairly happy with the results, but some of the instruments on my CN34 I just don't like, notably the cello (sounds like a walrus in pain), some winds, and brass. Also the selection of effects, like pads and leads, is a little limited, so all my songs end up sounding very similar. Honestly, I don't use the digital piano for playing notes into the software. I usually do most of my note input with the mouse, and use the piano only for its sounds. My laptop near my piano (Windows 7 32 bit) also has a very small screen, which is difficult to use with Sonar.
     
    Therefore, what I'd kind of like to do is have Sonar installed on my desktop computer (64 bit windows, with 32 inch screen) and ditch the piano altogether. As has been pointed out, the sounds that come with the sound card just don't cut it. So what I'm looking for is a few hundred good quality instruments and sounds that I can put on my desktop computer so I can run Sonar right from there, using my piano for recording only if I have to.
     
    I tried installing Soft Synths on my cakewalk. When I go that I have under VST2 an option called Cakewalk Sound Center. I tried fiddling with it but I can't hear anything on playback and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of instruments to be honest. Maybe there are more options with a real version of Sonar?
     
    Also, sorry for the ignorance, but what do you mean by "interface"?
     
    My budget isn't hard capped but I'd like to spend less than $200 to $250 on this (including price of Sonar) since this is really just a hobby for me.
     
    Thanks again for the guidance. I had previously thought Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop were hard to figure out. This audio stuff is even crazier...
    #6
    57Gregy
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14404
    • Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
    • Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/11 10:22:58 (permalink)
    Sound Center is expandable with many sound packs you can add (buy) to it.
    SONAR X3 Studio includes Dimension LE, which has Garritan Pocket Orchestra in it. I think those sounds are pretty good. Check out my soundclick site for Suite For Piano and Orchestra. I used the GPO Horns, French horn, strings, and woodwinds in it.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #7
    57Gregy
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14404
    • Joined: 2004/05/31 17:04:17
    • Location: Raleigh, North Carolina
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/11 10:41:51 (permalink)
    Oh, and an interface is an audio interface. That's a high-quality sound card designed for recording and playing sound, essential if you're using a lot of software synthesizers and/or many audio tracks and effects.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #8
    Corribus
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7
    • Joined: 2014/04/08 22:05:04
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/12 11:36:14 (permalink)
    Hi Greg,
    Thanks for the pointers. I see Sonar Studio is on Steam with all the Sound Center expansions for $299. That seems like a pretty good deal. I listened to the song you linked to and I agree the instruments sound pretty good.
     
    When I put my PC together a few years ago, I put most of my peripheral money into a video card, so all I've got is the Sound Card functionality that comes with the mother board. It's a good quality mother board but the sound card is probably nothing special. I know Sound Cards usually aren't very expensive.. but what will one allow me to do that I can't do with the integrated one?
    Thanks again
    T
    #9
    Kalle Rantaaho
    Max Output Level: -5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7005
    • Joined: 2006/01/09 13:07:59
    • Location: Finland
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/12 12:39:38 (permalink)
    Corribus
    Hi Greg,
    Thanks for the pointers. 
     I know Sound Cards usually aren't very expensive.. but what will one allow me to do that I can't do with the integrated one?
    Thanks again
    T




    The integrated soundchips simply don't have very good drivers, which often means you can't get the latency low enough (= disturbing delay between hitting the keyboard and hearing the sound). Dedicated cards don't necessarily offer you much special that you in theory couldn't do with the mobo chip, but they just work better and more reliably in multitrack recording. Less glithes, better AD/DA converters etc.. better pre amps, phantom power feed for condenser microphones etc. 

    SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre  -  Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc.
    The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
    #10
    Corribus
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7
    • Joined: 2014/04/08 22:05:04
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/12 13:29:56 (permalink)
    I see. Do you have a suggestion for a decent card? Back in the day I had a Turtle Beach card I loved (that also had a lot of great built in midi sounds), but it's been a while since I bought a dedicated card.
     
    I also just realized I was wrong about the Steam Cakewalk price. The $299 price is just for the instruments bundle and doesn't include the actual program. Oops!
    #11
    jude77
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1146
    • Joined: 2013/08/27 21:31:34
    • Location: South Saturn Delta
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/12 20:06:34 (permalink)
    Hello Corribus
     
    My understanding is that IK Multimedia is getting ready to come out with SampleTank 3, so Sampletank 2 is on sale (as are the other IK soft synths).  The sounds that come with it are generally good, and you can expand it with additional packages.  Check esoundz, as they seem to usually run IK specials.  One caveat is Sampletank 2 is 32 bit, though you can use it with Sonar 64 bit by using jbridge (it's about $20 as best as I remember).
     
    Best of luck with your music!
    #12
    jude77
    Max Output Level: -68 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1146
    • Joined: 2013/08/27 21:31:34
    • Location: South Saturn Delta
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/12 20:11:40 (permalink)
    Hello again Corribus,
     
    I just checked esoundz (which I should have done before posting) and the Total Workstation package is on sale for $99.  That includes SampleTank 2.5 XL, Miroslav Philharmonik, Sonik Synth 2, SampleMoo, SampleTron, and all 15 of the Xpansion Tank 2 Multi-Sampled Instrument collections.  That is a amazing deal!!
    #13
    RobertB
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 11256
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:40:50
    • Location: Fort Worth, Texas
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/12 22:57:28 (permalink)
    That's a killer deal for sure. It's enough sounds and instruments to keep you busy for a long time.
    Getting back to the interface question, here is a link to some offerings from Sweetwater (a company that you will probably come to be familiar with).
    http://www.sweetwater.com/c695--USB_Audio_Interfaces/popular/params=eyJkaW1lbnNpb24iOnsiQnJhbmQiOlsiNDI5NDk2NzI2OCIsIjQyOTQ5NjY4NjUiLCI0Mjk0OTY2MjczIiwiNDI5NDk2Njc4MCJdfX0
    The link is long because I set some filters. The full list would show units ranging from less than $100(marginal quality) to several thousand $.
    I realize this is just a hobby for you, as it is for myself. I have also learned that most worthwhile hobbies tend to be somewhat of a money pit. That said, an interface is probably the best investment you can make. $200-$250 will make a huge difference in your experience.
    Your built-in sound chip is fine for simple playback, but can cause problems when it tries to handle the more sophisticated requirements of a program like Sonar.
    The software is just part of a system. For it to really sing, you need a proper balance of hardware and software.
    Consider for a moment, a race car. You can have the best engine, the best driver, but if you have bad tires, it's all for naught.
    I also strongly recommend thinking about getting a MIDI controller. Yes, more money.
    But many of the soft synths we have suggested really come to life when you can play them as an instrument rather than punching in notes with the mouse.
    I understand that we are suggesting that you spend more than you had anticipated, but for what it's worth, once you get into this, you're going to do it anyway.
    Just for fun, here's a little piece that was done with some of the soft synths available to you, DimPro, Sample Tank, and Studio Instruments(Strings). All instruments were recorded real-time with a MIDI controller.
    http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=10285834&q=hi&newref=1
     
     
    post edited by RobertB - 2014/04/12 22:59:07

    My Soundclick Page
    SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp

    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
    #14
    Corribus
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7
    • Joined: 2014/04/08 22:05:04
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/13 01:28:42 (permalink)
    @Jude
     
    Thanks for the suggestion, I'll check that out.
     
    @RobertB
     
    I get what you're saying about investments. However I feel it almost needs to be something I build up to gradually. Otherwise it's like spending money without understanding what I'm spending it on. It's almost like I need to start out simple, then be like, "This is good, but it'd sure be better if I could do this!" and when I buy what I need in order to do that, then I realize it'd also be nice to do this other thing. And so on.
     
    With the trial version and the digital piano, I recognized the need for some more instruments (and better versions of some of the ones I had). However, now that you mention it, it may be that it wasn't the instruments so much as the mechanical way they sounded due to entering them with a mouse. I may go back and try playing the notes in and seeing if that makes a difference.
     
    Which isn't to say that the interface options you provided me aren't useful. I appreciate the help and will certainly look over them. Most of those don't look like internal components though, so they weren't the simple sound card I envisioned.
     
    I think the first step is to buy Sonar and go from there. Rome wasn't built in a day. :)
     
    (Nice piece by the way. Enjoyed it!)
    #15
    Kev999
    Max Output Level: -36 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 3922
    • Joined: 2007/05/01 14:22:54
    • Location: Victoria, Australia
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/13 02:18:56 (permalink)
    Corribus
    ...I am about to conclude my trial run of Sonar...digging any further than that got me into a confusing world of VSTs...All I really want are some nice instruments and other sound effects...Can anyone boil it down for me, maybe make a suggestion for what might satisfy my needs? It doesn't have to be free, but on the other hand, I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on these either.



    Maybe you are unaware that the Sonar package includes a lot of VST instruments and effects and that these are excluded from the trial version. Don't purchase any extra ones until you have tried these first.

    SonarPlatinum(22.11.0.111)|Mixbus32C(4.3.19)|DigitalPerformer(9.5.1)|Reaper(5.77)
    FractalDesign:DefineR5|i7-6850k@4.1GHz|16GB@2666MHz-DDR4|MSI:GamingProCarbonX99a|Matrox:M9148(x2)|UAD2solo(6.5.2)|W7Ult-x64-SP1
    Audient:iD22+ASP800|KRK:VXT6|+various-outboard-gear|+guitars&basses, etc.
    Having fun at work lately
    #16
    Corribus
    Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 7
    • Joined: 2014/04/08 22:05:04
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/20 20:36:07 (permalink)
    Kev999,
    Thanks for the heads up. I was unaware of that and will take your advice. Sorry I never responded, too; was away from the internet for a few days.
     
    #17
    tomixornot
    Max Output Level: -58.5 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 1674
    • Joined: 2011/03/05 11:31:26
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/22 23:59:57 (permalink)
    pls ignore : I'm just posting something here to get rid of the spam header left-over.

    Albert


    i7 2600K @ 3.40GHz / MB Intel DP67BG / 16GB Ram
    - ADATA 250GB SSD (Boot)
    - Samsung Spinpoint F1 1TB HDD (Samples)
    Audio interface : Motu 828 MK ii
     
    i7 6700K @ 4.00GHz / MB Asrock Z170 / 16GB Ram
    - Samsung EVO 850 120GB / 500 GB SSD

    Audio interface : Roland Quad Capture
     
    Win 10 Pro / Sonar Platinum
    #18
    craigb
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 41704
    • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
    • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/26 15:00:21 (permalink)
    tomixornot
    pls ignore : I'm just posting something here to get rid of the spam header left-over.


    Ditto.

     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
    #19
    craigb
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 41704
    • Joined: 2009/01/28 23:13:04
    • Location: The Pacific Northwestshire
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/29 02:55:44 (permalink)
    And again...

     
    Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
    #20
    MandolinPicker
    Max Output Level: -76 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 720
    • Joined: 2003/11/05 18:51:51
    • Location: Oxford, AL
    • Status: offline
    Re: Instruments Question 2014/04/30 16:22:36 (permalink)
    I think you are on the right track. Use what you have first, and buy what you don't have. You have a sound card and it sounds like your keyboard will allow midi input/output, but what you don't have is a good quality DAW. So Sonar is a good starting point (I have Sonar X3 Studio - a nice upgrade from HomeStudio 6). You can also look for a soundcard driver called ASIO4ALL. Not as popular as it use to be, but if the current sound card drivers don't work well, this may be worth a try. And you can use your keyboard to input midi notes into SONAR, then play around with the built-in sounds in Sonar and play the composition back through the soundcard (not the keyboard). As time goes on you will realize what you want next and can add it into the system - and trust me, there is always just 'one more thing' you will want to get!
     
    Also, don't forget to check out the free stuff on the net. There are some really nice gems out there
     

    The Mandolin Picker
    "Bless your hearts... and all your vital organs" - John Duffy
     
    "Got time to breath, got time for music!"- Briscoe Darling, Jr.
     
    Windows 8.1, Sonar Platinum (64-bit), AMD FX 6120 Six-Core, 10GB RAM
    #21
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1