rbowser
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TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped - not solved
SOLVED 4/14/14 - I re-ran X3's installer, selecting only TSS-1 - That fixed things up. ---------------------------- When I'm starting a new project, TTS-1 is often my stand-in synth, used while I'm sketching things in. Later I replace the instruments with what I'm really going to use. But now in X3 - and this is something that has never happened to me in previous incarnations of Sonar, every time I stop the project, the synth goes silent. I can't play and hear the instrument I'm working with unless the project is running. That doesn't work - I often need to work on the arrangement with nothing else playing. Anyone having this problem? Randy B.
post edited by rbowser - 2014/04/14 19:40:11
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Anderton
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/13 20:07:24
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Shot in the dark here...try setting the TTS-1 MIDI out to something other than your controller. Maybe there's an errant controller 7 = 0 message or local control off being sent.
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/13 20:48:03
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Anderton
Shot in the dark here...try setting the TTS-1 MIDI out to something other than your controller. Maybe there's an errant controller 7 = 0 message or local control off being sent.
Good, I'll look into that when I open the project again. I had to give up in disgust since I couldn't play anything in TSS while stopped. Sometimes there would be a note or two, then a few more would sound out super delayed - then all would be fine when I pushed Play again.- If your idea doesn't fix things, I'll just have to load the Big Guns in this project much earlier than usual. I haven't had these problems with any other synth I've used so far in X3, so things will probably be OK if I just stop using TSS in this.- Gotta say though, it will be a Big Drag if this is the way it's going to always be now with TSS. Thanks for the post and suggestion, Craig. Randy
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Anderton
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/13 20:54:01
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We seem to have a lot of similarities in our workflow, because I too "block out" ideas with the TTS-1 and then often replace parts later. But I've never run into the problem you've described, and I've logged a ton of TTS-1 hours in Sonar X-series. The only time I had a problem was with the Casio XW-P1, because Sonar sent a local control off signal. So I'd keep playing the Casio and not hear any sounds coming out of it unless Sonar sent them. A tweak in the INI file solved that problem.
There's definitely something wrong, let's see if we can figure it out. The "super delayed" might be a clue. A few more details would be helpful, like how you're triggering it, which audio driver, is it followed by any effects, etc.
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robert_e_bone
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/13 23:38:55
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I have just finished banging away in a new X3 project with TTS-1 in it and a bunch of audio and midi tracks.
I was able to record single tracks, multiple tracks, playback tracks while recording other tracks, and all simply worked as expected.
Can you please detail what your project consists of, and the steps you go through to reproduce this condition for this project?
Thanks,
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 12:41:06
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Hello again, Bob and Craig - I'm extremely impressed at how you both maintain such a constant, helpful presence here at the Forum - Thank you both! I've started work on that project again this morning and I still have the Silent TSS Syndrome. Anderton...I've logged a ton of TTS-1 hours in Sonar X-series. The only time I had a problem was with the Casio XW-P1, because Sonar sent a local control off signal. So I'd keep playing the Casio and not hear any sounds coming out of it unless Sonar sent them. A tweak in the INI file solved that problem.... robert_e_bone...I have just finished banging away in a new X3 project with TTS-1 in it and a bunch of audio and midi tracks. I was able to record single tracks, multiple tracks, playback tracks while recording other tracks, and all simply worked as expected... You're both saying what I could have said last week before installing X3. I've used TSS for years as my sketch-pad synth, never having troubles with it. A tweak in the INI file - Maybe there's one I need to do for this? Anderton...A few more details would be helpful, like how you're triggering it, which audio driver, is it followed by any effects, etc... robert_e_bone...Can you please detail what your project consists of, and the steps you go through to reproduce this condition for this project?... I use a Cakewalk/Roland A-800 Pro Keyboard. I use ASIO through my Alesis iO|2 interface. I'm not using any effects. It's a new project started yesterday. The problem started with just one MIDI track in the project. The steps I go through to reproduce this condition-- Insert TSS, using just the first stereo out for audio, set up several instruments in the interface, insert associated MIDI tracks. When recording or playing back the project, I have perfectly functioning response as I play my keyboard. When I stop playback, most of the time there's no sound. MIDI activity is showing in the MIDI track meters. When there is sound, it's intermittent - sometimes a note here and there will play, other times it will play with a delay of approx a second. Most of the time, there just isn't any sound. Knowing already from other things I've done in X3 that the instruments I use most often work, I'll just go to those now to get work done. Maybe this TSS problem will be sorted out eventually. Randy
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brundlefly
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 12:51:03
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rbowser
When I stop playback, most of the time there's no sound. MIDI activity is showing in the MIDI track meters. When there is sound, it's intermittent - sometimes a note here and there will play, other times it will play with a delay of approx a second. Most of the time, there just isn't any sound.
Hey Randy, normally this wouldn't apply to real-time MIDI input but... The X-series defaults the MIDI Prepare Using Buffer to 250 milliseconds. This is too small for a lot of systems (mine included) and can result in dropped MIDI notes on playback of existing MIDI. Try setting it to the old default of 500. Also, when TTS-1 is not responding to MIDI, do you get sound if you click the audition buttons at the bottom of the channel strips? EDIT: Also, I know you're aware of the problems with Aria Player caused by Zero Controllers When Play Stops, and you probably have it disabled. This shouldn't cause any trouble for TTS-1, but I wonder if it might be a factor here somehow...?
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 13:13:36
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brundlefly...The X-series defaults the MIDI Prepare Using Buffer to 250 milliseconds. This is too small for a lot of systems (mine included) and can result in dropped MIDI notes on playback of existing MIDI. Try setting it to the old default of 500.
Also, when TTS-1 is not responding to MIDI, do you get sound if you click the audition buttons at the bottom of the channel strips?
EDIT: Also, I know you're aware of the problems with Aria Player caused by Zero Controllers When Play Stops, and you probably have it disabled. This shouldn't cause any trouble for TTS-1, but I wonder if it might be a factor here somehow...? Thanks for all the replies, Brundle - I changed that buffer to 500, no change. Yes, I get sound if I click the audition buttons. I double checked to make sure - I have Zero Controllers unchecked in Preferences. Randy
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robert_e_bone
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 13:41:42
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I actually have zero controllers checked on my system for X3, and had no issues playing sounds after stopping playback of the project.
The test project I refer to is a new project, using Normal template. I inserted a single instance of TTS-1, then inserted 3 different stereo audio tracks and 3 different regular midi tracks.
I kept piano on TTS-1 channel 1 (first instrument at the far left), changed the 2nd instrument to Organ, and the 3rd instrument to Fretless Bass.
I then set the audio track routing assignments accordingly, and all midi tracks were already set to output midi to TTS-1, but I did set Midi Output Channel values for the 3 midi tracks to be channel 1 for piano, channel 2 for organ, and channel 3 for bass.
Soooooo, with the above, I captured some goofy midi notes for each midi track (all 3 instruments, all playing something different, but at the same time).
After completing the recordings, I hit playback, let it play for a few seconds, then hit Stop on the transport bar, which did stop playback, as expected.
I was then able to click on any one of the midi tracks (which uses the Sonar default of setting midi input echo 'on' when that midi track comes into focus). Each midi track played the appropriate instrument when I clicked on that instrument's midi track, as expected.
Sooooo, I do not experience the same problem as you have posted, using X3 and TTS-1.
Is it possible you do not have midi input echo 'ON' for one of these midi tracks you are not hearing sound for? You have to make sure you firstly click on a midi track that has its output assigned to TTS-1, and you secondly have to make sure that when you DO click on that midi track that the Midi Input Echo On button is lighted for that midi track. (if the midi input echo button for that track is not lighted - when you click on the midi track - by clicking on the track number at the far left of the track, then you most likely do NOT have the Sonar default set to Always Echo Current Midi Track set properly - this is set in Preferences>MIDI>Playback and Recording).
I hope the above helps.
Bob Bone
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 14:24:56
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robert_e_bone...Sooooo, I do not experience the same problem as you have posted, using X3 and TTS-1... lol--Um, Robert - I appreciate you taking the time to look into this some more, but you have to understand that I have used Sonar for years and have used TSS as my scratch pad for years also. I understand everything about using soft synths. The project in question is basically the same as the one you described - I've simply inserted TSS and attempted to start work. Just now I shut down Sonar again out of frustration since it's the same problem of having no sound when I stop the transport. I'll re-open the project, delete TSS and get the work on with my other synths - I intended to do that earlier, but I kept gnawing on this problem. No meat left on that bone though - not for now! Randy
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robert_e_bone
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 14:48:06
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I surely didn't mean to offend you with my post, nor was my comment about my not having the problem meant to be condescending or any thing else. It was only meant to indicate that for whatever the reason, TTS-1 within X3 didn't seem to be 'globally broken' - meaning broken for everyone.
I am simply trying to help you figure out why it works differently between your system and mine. I provided all the steps only in case something I did or didn't do differently might provide some clue as to what was happening. I certainly did not mean to imply you had no idea of how to work with either TTS-1 or Sonar.
I had not worked with TTS-1 in X3, so I thought perhaps I should give it a test, in case there WAS some sort of global change where it no longer worked properly.
I am wondering if you could remove and install TTS-1 again, just to see if that made any difference.
The only other thing that comes to mind to check on is whether or not you have Windows maintenance all up to current levels. That's a reach - just grasping at things that could account for different behavior.
Sorry I don't at the moment have any definitive solution for you.
Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 14:58:25
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robert_e_boneI surely didn't mean to offend you with my post... It's fine, Robert - I wasn't offended, just taken by surprise reading a reply that seemed to be taking me for a newbie. But I Am a newb again in the X3 world! I just checked - My version of TSS-1 is v.1.0.2.0, dated 8/28/2009. Maybe you have a newer version? Randy B.
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brundlefly
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 15:24:29
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The only other thing I can think of that has ever caused issues with live MIDI input like this is the MIDI EVent Filter MFX. I used to use it to filter out All Notes Off from my Roland keyboard because it caused problems with some soft synths, but then I would sometimes get dropped delayed notes while performing.
Are there any MFX anywhere in the project, Randy? I realize you're tired of looking at it, but something very odd is going on.
Also, I know you're not a noob, but please confirm TTS-1 is routed conventionally from the synth rack to the audio track's input rather than being inserted in the FX bin of the audio track.
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 16:11:22
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brundlefly
The only other thing I can think of that has ever caused issues with live MIDI input like this is the MIDI EVent Filter MFX. I used to use it to filter out All Notes Off from my Roland keyboard because it caused problems with some soft synths, but then I would sometimes get dropped delayed notes while performing.
Are there any MFX anywhere in the project, Randy? I realize you're tired of looking at it, but something very odd is going on.
Also, I know you're not a noob, but please confirm TTS-1 is routed conventionally from the synth rack to the audio track's input rather than being inserted in the FX bin of the audio track. No MFX, and TSS is routed conventionally with a connected MIDI track and associated Audio track in the project, not in the FX bin. The keyboard hasn't ever sent out errant data, but I suppose there's always a first time - but I can confirm that all other synths I've tried so far work fine. Randy
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robert_e_bone
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 17:22:11
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I am also running 1.0.2.0, and don't understand how it is behaving differently.
Bob Bone
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Anderton
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 17:32:33
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Did you try disabling MIDI out to the TTS to see what would happen?
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JayCee99
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 17:40:06
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Hmmm I like this idea of using TTS-1 as a sketchpad and then switching it to better synths later. . . never thought of that. Sometimes I sit down with a song in my head but then I get bogged down in tweaking the first sound in whatever synth I choose and I lose the thought. This would help eliminate that. Now if I can just get good at quickly laying down drum beats and moving on :D The preset rhythyms never seem to fit with the music I'm writing :(
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 18:56:01
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SOLVED - I'll edit the subject line. - Even though TSS-1 was playing fine during playback, I decided something hinky must be going with the installation, since it was refusing to let out a peep when the transport was stopped. It was half working - Earlier I thought a bad installation would have crippled it all together, so had dismissed the notion that the problems could be due to a bad install. But, it was easy enough to see what would happen with a re-install. So I re-ran the X3 installer, custom install, choosing only TSS-1. I think when I first installed X3, I unchecked a few items, not wanting to reinstall things I already have - Error on my part I suppose? In any case - X3 is happy with its very ooooooowwwwn version of TTS-1. It needed to have TTS-1 registered anew on the computer-? I've worked with it for the last hour without a single instance of the error. Naaaah - nix on the fix - no stix. Thank you very much, everyone who helped on this thread. Randy B.
post edited by rbowser - 2014/04/14 19:43:32
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brundlefly
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 19:02:50
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Cool. I almost replied, "Format drive, reinstall O/S, reinstall X3" after the last round. 
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/14 19:45:01
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brundlefly
Cool. I almost replied, "Format drive, reinstall O/S, reinstall X3" after the last round.
--The "fix" didn't stick. When I went back to work, after a few minutes, the problem returned, exactly as before - TSS silent most of the time. Format the drive for this--hehe--yeeeeah, right. Just have to throw out TSS until further notice I guess. -- I gotta say - this isn't the only black mark X3 is getting in my "Con" column. Man I wish the X3 installation hadn't destroyed my 8.5. I'd be light years ahead in this work that's piled up. Randy B.
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JayCee99
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/15 10:50:29
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Thought you might be interested to know that something similar happened to me last night. I was playing around with TTS-1 and used the "MIDI Kill" button in Sonar because one of the notes was hanging. After using the "MIDI Kill" button, TTS-1 couldn't see my MIDI keyboard input anymore and wasn't making any sounds.
The fix for me was to add another synth to the project on a separate track. This seemed to cause Sonar to "snap out of it" and then the input and sound to TTS-1 worked again.
Not sure if this is related to your issue or not but it seemed similar.
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stevec
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/15 13:43:51
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Just by coincidence I also had a similar issue with TTS over the last few days. I've been slowly replacing the TTS parts with other synths, so only drums and organ remain. However, I could not get these remaining MIDI tracks to respond to real-time playing, even though I could enter notes into those strack and they would play back.
The answer for me was that some of the previous "dummy" tracks were muted to make way for the new synths, and as soon as I un-muted the original piano MIDI track on channel 1, the remaining drum and organ MIDI tracks worked as expected again. I haven't dug in any further to see why, I just muted all of the clips on the piano track instead. :)
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/26 11:32:08
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Posting an update on this:
I've used X3 for two more weeks since the last post on this thread. Every single VST (and DXi) I've wanted to use in projects has worked fine, both FX and instruments. The Only thing that continues to not work is TTS-1. It's really inconvenient to suddenly not have it available, since it's been my sketch pad sound source for a very long time, and sometimes instruments from the TTS-1 have ended up in final versions of projects.
The behavior persists of constantly losing sound, sometimes with notes delayed, usually with them never sounding out. MIDI output is not selected for the plugin.
Re-installing from the X3 installer, and then running the Plugin Manager, made no difference.
If anyone has a new theory of what's going on, I'd love to hear it.
Randy B.
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brundlefly
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/26 11:51:50
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I know you've been inserting TTS-1 from scratch, but are you always starting with a custom project template, and have you built a new one starting with the default Normal.cwt that ships with X3? Also, have you checked your MIDI Prepare Using buffer? The X series defaults to 250 vs. the pre-X default of 500, and this causes trouble on a lot of systems, including mine.
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rbowser
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/26 12:05:13
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brundlefly...are you always starting with a custom project template, and have you built a new one starting with the default Normal.cwt that ships with X3? Also, have you checked your MIDI Prepare Using buffer? The X series defaults to 250 vs. the pre-X default of 500, and this causes trouble on a lot of systems, including mine... Excellent and super instant reply, as per usual Brundle - Thank you. I meant to say that back when you posted this about the prepare buffer, I changed my setting to 500. That was helpful, but didn't fix this particular problem. I'll run a test with the shipped X3 Normal template, or Normal project file. I haven't done that yet! - Everything I'm working on currently was started with 8.5. This sounds like it's probably the solution. Thanks - I'll let you know what the results are, so I can hopefully re-title this thread with SOLVED! in the subject line. Randy
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
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Re: TTS-1 goes silent when project is stopped
2014/04/26 12:51:06
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Everything I'm working on currently was started with 8.5. This sounds like it's probably the solution.
I'd be interested as I have had TTs-1 behavior like you are describing and all my projects are also from 8.5.
the only solution was to delete it from the rack and re-insert it.
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