WAV files received from protools session to mix

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dahjah
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2014/04/14 22:51:49 (permalink)

WAV files received from protools session to mix

Well when I received the files it comes out to 683 tracks.
They recorded it overseas and now brought up here for mixing and mastering. I've mixed their stuff before and they loved it so they came to me again. Problem is it looks like every take in the recording process became a new track, like maybe Sonars take lanes.
 
It won't even play because there are so many, it just crashes Sonar every time unless I solo some tracks.
There are like 23 tracks of flute alone and each instrument and voice goes on the same way. I have no idea how the song is supposed to sound yet.
 
I don't know what the engineer was thinking or if he was just lazy or didn't know what he was doing.
Lots of duplicates I'm hearing as well, so some tracks need to eliminated.
 
What's the best way to handle this, aside from suck it up and get to work? (Which is probably what i'm going to end up doing anyhow)
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    Anderton
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/14 23:00:42 (permalink)
    Wow. Just...wow.
     
    You might suggest they export each track as a file and send to you. Hopefully they have a recent version of PT that can do faster-than-real-time bounces.

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/14 23:04:22 (permalink)
    Well if you charge by the hour then this is a good bit of work to enjoy. 
     
    The big question is why is there no notes about the tracks? certainly the other engineer kept track sheets and notes? 
    Possibly these notes are embedded and that only Pro Tools would show them when the "session" is opened in pro tools.. 
    It almost sounds like what you would get if you dumped the Sonar audio folder from a busy project with lots of overdubs. Think about that. If I just gave you my audio folder and no CWP file you would have the same mess.
    If I was the band I would not want to pay to sort it out and would take it to someone with protools, unless there is no protools project equivalent of our beloved CWP inluded with the files. I'm sure that there is a basic song that would easily play if these where opened in Pro tools. 
     

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    #3
    dahjah
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 07:42:49 (permalink)
    Yes WOW!!!
    I hear what you're saying Cactus. Usually ppl have this stuff cleaned up before they send it to me.
    If I had SloTools LE would that help me out ya think?
    She said she did have the protools files as well.  Maybe if I had it I could mitigate myself around this kind of business.
    #4
    emwhy
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 07:47:31 (permalink)
    I've had that happen as well, not that many files, but Pro Tools will keep every take so if they din't label things shame on them!
    #5
    dahjah
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 08:01:43 (permalink)
    OK
    Well now i think I'm gonna have to tell her to do exactly as Anderton said, I bumped my playback latency up to 2048 and soloed 1 track and it still crashed Sonar. I can play the files individually in windows media player but not in sonar.
    #6
    stxx
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 11:40:12 (permalink)
    They need to export the the "live or active"  tracks in the session and not just give you the audio folder.  Its an operation they need to perform

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    Cactus Music
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 12:15:41 (permalink)
    Yes that's what I was thinking, You need the pro tools "session" as it was on the last save. 
    I had a Pro Tools LE kicking around here that came with my M Audio interface. I believe it had a track count limitation. 
    Why don't you post the question on Gear sluts where Pro tools users certainly outnumber the rest! :? 

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    #8
    Cactus Music
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 12:24:44 (permalink)
    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/newbie-audio-engineering-production-question-zone/921901-editing-acoustic-guitar.html
     
    Speaking of this, check out this thread I posted in, I'm about to find out how many Pro Tools folks are around as I just baited a hook! 
    This guy is having trouble with simple copy paste and is told Pro Tools doesn't do the zero crossing trick like Sonar does. 

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    #9
    brundlefly
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 13:23:06 (permalink)
    Assuming you can't get a cleaned up export from the "Pro Tool" who recorded it, you might try something like this:
     
    1. Import all the tracks and archive everything.
    2. Un-archive one set of related tracks/takes (assuming you can figure out what belongs together ).
    3. Select the clips from all but one of the related tracks, and copy-paste special to the un-selected track using the Paste to One Track option (make sure to set the Now time correctly for pasting if not 1:01:000).
    4. This will drop each of the pasted tracks into its own lane (I could be wrong, but I don't think there's a way to do this with drag 'n' drop).
    5. Show lanes and click the highest numbered take in the track with the comp tool to make that the active take, muting all others.
    6. Delete the copied tracks and save the project as a new version in case you need to backtrack at some point.
    7. Repeat 2-6 for all the other groups of takes.
    8. Have a beer... or two.
    9. Start auditioning takes in each track to figure out what's what.
     

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    #10
    dahjah
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/15 14:26:50 (permalink)
    Thanx peeps, I asked her to take it to a studio with protools and have them bounce the instruments down to single files. Hopefully all goes well. I was hired to mix so...
    #11
    stxx
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 17:42:05 (permalink)
    If they don't export the tracks for you OR you can't  load and do that yourself in your own protools session, you will never be able to make heads or tails of those tracks.    

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    #12
    paulo
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 17:58:08 (permalink)
    Don't know anything about PT, but I would certainly be asking them to provide something more user friendly than that.
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    Anderton
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 20:04:16 (permalink)
    paulo
    Don't know anything about PT, but I would certainly be asking them to provide something more user friendly than that.



    Anything would be more user-friendly than that...imagine if every clip in a sonar project was exported as a separate file.
     
    The mind boggles, especially if this is one of the versions where the fades are kept in a separate folder...

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    #14
    John T
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 20:27:12 (permalink)
    Aside from anything else, have they not sent you a rough mix? Even without getting into the madness of that many files, there should be some kind of guideline version of the song to listen to.

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    Dave Modisette
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 20:28:03 (permalink)
    He probably sent you a project and included all the audio on the Playlists which is what Pro Tools calls track lanes.  I'd only load the basic rhythm tracks first and see if you can do a quick 2 track mix and then start bringing in the multiple takes of an instrument and comp them.  Work on getting the comps together and then add plugins and start mixing later.

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    John T
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 20:32:55 (permalink)
    Myself, I wouldn't touch it at all until they sent me something more sensible. You'd have to be getting movie star  money to just break even on the investment of time a 600+ track discovery session would take.

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    John T
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 20:33:59 (permalink)
    Not saying you should give them a hard time or anything. But I'd be politely saying "look, this can't be worked with, you need to give it me this other way".
     

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    Dave Modisette
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/16 20:37:56 (permalink)
    Cactus Music
    http://www.gearslutz.com/board/newbie-audio-engineering-production-question-zone/921901-editing-acoustic-guitar.html
     
    Speaking of this, check out this thread I posted in, I'm about to find out how many Pro Tools folks are around as I just baited a hook! 
    This guy is having trouble with simple copy paste and is told Pro Tools doesn't do the zero crossing trick like Sonar does. 


    I'll take the bait.  I use both products and there's no reason why you can't work (cut and paste) in either.  One key press in PT11 and I can zoom right in to where I can see a zero crossing and make a cut right on it.  SONAR can hit the closest zero crossing automatically.  But then there are a handful of editing tools that PT has that SONAR doesn't have and there are times when SONAR's zero crossing cuts a smidge ahead or behind where I wanted to split.  But that isn't a problem either if you know how to work your tools.

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    Kev999
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 02:28:30 (permalink)
    I once entered  remix contest in which the supplied stems were all mono WAVs, i.e. all the stereo tracks had been split to mono during the export.  The excuse given was that this was the only option in ProTools for exporting all the audio tracks.  I can't believe that this would be true.  If so it's a severe limitation.
     

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    John T
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 06:22:14 (permalink)
    It's not true. Both that and the OP's problem are down to the people doing the exporting not knowing what they're doing.

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    markyzno
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 13:53:28 (permalink)
    I cannot believe the ridiculous nature of some people when it comes to transferring files sometimes, especially between platforms.
     
    It needs careful consideration and planning.
     
    Also, its both the OPs responsibility as well as the person he is importing from.
     
    Let this thread be a lesson to people who dont understand this nightmarish situation.
     
    My advice to the OP is go back to the person who transferred the files, work out a solution with them over the phone and email (so you have an email chain), then start the project when you are both happy.
     
    Pro Tools and Sonar will happily sit side by side as long as you dont involve AAF's or OMFS, so if its a simple stems transfer it should be fine. 
     
    Therefore the person exporting hasnt exported their stems correctly. But, the OP or the person in the middle should have arranged this transition smoothly.
     
     
     
     

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    #22
    markyzno
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 13:57:41 (permalink)
    I am totally with John T on this.
     
    I work in film (bigger more complex files I can tell you) and I spend a big session with the Editor to make sure we have transferred the files in a suitable format that works both ends, I'll even get them to send over a small test file to make sure we dont have any gremlins and then get the full project.
     
    So, poor organisation on both sides. I would NEVER just say to an editor "Yeah, just send the files over, it will work"
     

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    #23
    markyzno
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 13:59:34 (permalink)
    Also, to the OP, you said "I have no idea how the track is supposed to sound yet"
     
    WTF?
     
    Why havent you got a demo track, a simple stereo rough cut to give you a good idea?
     
    Sorry to rant a bit, but meh.
     

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    #24
    markyzno
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 14:02:32 (permalink)
    Mod Bod
    He probably sent you a project and included all the audio on the Playlists which is what Pro Tools calls track lanes.  I'd only load the basic rhythm tracks first and see if you can do a quick 2 track mix and then start bringing in the multiple takes of an instrument and comp them.  Work on getting the comps together and then add plugins and start mixing later.



    How would the OP be able to open a PTX file that would be a container of the reference files when Sonar cant open a PTX?
     
    He just needs stems. Its got nothing to do with PT.
     

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    #25
    AT
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 14:04:41 (permalink)
    The other thing to watch out for is timed-stamped files.  I've imported PT and the files pop up w/ all kinds of time at the beginning.  I thought they were empty.
     
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    markyzno
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 14:05:35 (permalink)
    The only thing I can think of although this is a LONG shot....Maybe they sent broadcast WAVS or something but that would just mess up your timeline rather than 600 tracks of audio.
     
     

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    #27
    Dave Modisette
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 15:16:50 (permalink)
    Kev999
    I once entered  remix contest in which the supplied stems were all mono WAVs, i.e. all the stereo tracks had been split to mono during the export.  The excuse given was that this was the only option in ProTools for exporting all the audio tracks.  I can't believe that this would be true.  If so it's a severe limitation.
     


    No longer true.  Pro Tools 11 can handle it.

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    #28
    Dave Modisette
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 15:27:32 (permalink)
    markyzno
    Mod Bod
    He probably sent you a project and included all the audio on the Playlists which is what Pro Tools calls track lanes.  I'd only load the basic rhythm tracks first and see if you can do a quick 2 track mix and then start bringing in the multiple takes of an instrument and comp them.  Work on getting the comps together and then add plugins and start mixing later.



    How would the OP be able to open a PTX file that would be a container of the reference files when Sonar cant open a PTX?
     
    He just needs stems. Its got nothing to do with PT.
     


    I didn't take it as a PTX project.  I'm just thinking that tracking studio exported wave files and he included all the playlists (exported as wave files) as well.  Me, I would have asked if the tracking studio had done the edits on the playlists and if they had done that, just sent the comped versions.  As far as I know the only way to collaborate with a PT guy is with wave files (stems).  IIRC, I've moved tracks between Samplitude Pro X and Pro Tools with OMF files but I've never tried it with SONAR. 
     
    The rub is that SONAR (or more than likely his hardware) can't deal with all of the tracks and someone at some point is going to have to thin it down - either the OP or his source.

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    #29
    Anderton
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    Re: WAV files received from protools session to mix 2014/04/17 22:09:44 (permalink)
    Mod Bod
    IIRC, I've moved tracks between Samplitude Pro X and Pro Tools with OMF files but I've never tried it with SONAR.




    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul04/articles/sonarnotes.htm
     
    The article is from a decade ago, but I assume things haven't changed much. I was able to load projects exported from Sonar into Cubase, Pro Tools, and Digital Performer. The problem is the reverse - Sonar can't import OMF projects. At the time, it was inconceivable that someone would want to mix a PT project in Sonar, but...times have changed.
     

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