Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer?

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jpaul
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2014/04/16 11:53:35 (permalink)

Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer?

Hello,
 
I've been absent from Sonar for a few years and recently installed X3 Producer. However, I now see a large list of Soft-synths and effects -- many of them seem redundant and perhaps from previous Sonar versions. Is there a sorted list of the best/most-recent choices for soft-synths and effects (e.g., best compressor or best strings) that come with Sonar X3 Producer?
 
For example, I assume most people would chose Addictive Drums over Session Drummer 3 by default these days. However, both drum kits are shipped (along with the really old kits in the older Cakewalk soft-synth). I want to make sure I'm choosing the latest-and-greatest effects and sound engines -- hard to tell if I'm not yet familiar with all of them or know how old they actually are.
 
Also, I couldn't find a resource for a quick demo/overview of all the soft-synths and effects (preferably video) that I can choose from. Otherwise, I'll have to play around with each one which could take a much longer time. Anyone know of such a resource?
 
thanks!
#1
Fog
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 12:01:35 (permalink)
you shouldn't be worried about GAS and "the latest and greatest" unless you can justify using it.. in this months computer music, the bloke in it was still using his atari st with c-lab up to 6 months ago..20+ year tech.
 
might wanna look at rapture and get free muz3um for it off patch arena..  although it's available for other cake synths
 
 
#2
Cactus Music
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 12:06:53 (permalink)
Interesting question. I must say over time if you have all the versions of Sonar on you computer you would end up with a rats nest of plug ins. But most of us move on and update our systems too. So the best solution is to start fresh on a new Hard drive and OS, install the latest version of Sonar X3e.
 
And then only install the old versions of Sonar when you see what plug ins are missing. 
Then you install your old versions but do a custom install and uncheck almost everything but the few missing plug ins. I just did this with 8.5 only to regain True Piano's and Lexicon. I unchecked the rest. 

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#3
tomixornot
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 12:29:26 (permalink)
With the Producer, you'll want to use the Pro Channel Eq and Compressors.
 
Lots of getting started videos here :
 
http://www.cakewalk.com/CakeTV/SONARU.aspx

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#4
Sanderxpander
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 12:51:07 (permalink)
If it works, it works, but some of the newer "premium" synths and FX with Producer X3 are;
TruePianos
SI-Strings
Addictive Drums
Z3TA+ for modern synth sounds and "analog" stuff
The ProChannel Quad Curve EQ
The ProChannel Compressors
Breverb2 Sonar
TH2 Sonar (guitar ampsim)
Dimension Pro for random bread and butter sounds
Lounge Lizard Session for Rhodes
Nomad BlueTubes for a bunch of "coloring fx" (most of them simulate some tube warming)
Melodyne as a V-Vocal replacement - get the deal on the upgrade from Celemony, if you can afford it and do any kind of vocal repair.

Most of these are new since the X series, some of them since X3.
#5
Bule
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 13:02:29 (permalink)
Cactus Music
Interesting question. I must say over time if you have all the versions of Sonar on you computer you would end up with a rats nest of plug ins. But most of us move on and update our systems too. So the best solution is to start fresh on a new Hard drive and OS, install the latest version of Sonar X3e.
 
And then only install the old versions of Sonar when you see what plug ins are missing. 
Then you install your old versions but do a custom install and uncheck almost everything but the few missing plug ins. I just did this with 8.5 only to regain True Piano's and Lexicon. I unchecked the rest. 


Good info and I like that idea. ^^^Think I'll do that.

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#6
Sanderxpander
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 13:20:00 (permalink)
Am I mistaking True Pianos with something else? I don't have 8 but am pretty sure I have something with a similar name (I usually use some NI piano though).
#7
scook
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 13:23:08 (permalink)
Yes, TruePianos Amber has been bundled with Producer for some time, including X3 Producer. Those purchasing X3 Studio however would have to rely on a previous version of Producer to get the synth.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 13:34:38 (permalink)
Right so no need to install from 8.5

It may be a good idea for the OP to check out which plugins were touted as new or high quality during his last version, check which of those are missing in X3, and install those while leaving the rest. E.g. R-Mix from X2 Producer.
#9
dubdisciple
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 14:08:34 (permalink)
I don't want to sound like a talking cliche but see wha tworks best for you.  Someone just recently posted on this forum on how he spent tons of money trying to keep up with plugins and his recordings never got any better.  I'll leave Cakewalk's marketing spiel on the site to list the complete latest and greatest included plugins.  Keep in mind that some of the older ones are still great .  I think any competent audio engineer could use the Sonitus Suite alone for effects and create a commercial quality recording. of course "better" plugins exist, including some of the new toys in Sonar.  I guess my point is to taske a good look at all the tools at your disposal, new and old. For example, overall, I would say Addictive Drums is superior to Session Drummer 3, but for certain styles of music, SD3 has advantages.  In genres that rely heavily on custom drum samples, AD is useless since you cannot use your own samples.  With synths, I often find people making the mistake of judging them solely by presets.  Many of the kids i work with simply want the synth used on [fill in a pop song]and there is nothing inherently wrong with that if emulating the latest pop hit is your goal.  The same goes for those buying vintage styled synths/fx to emulate retro styles.  As long as you understand that "best" is going to be highly dependent on what you are using it for. 
 
With that said Zeta+, Rapture and Dimension pro are a nice set of all-arounder synths that can be used ina wide variety of genres.  Zeta is fairly popular among non-cakewalk users but many sleep on Rapture.  Not only does Dimension pro have a decent set of electric pianos, Cakewalk also comes with a version of Lounge Lizard  that sounds great IMHO as well as one module of True Pianos. 
 
As for effects, the quadcurve EQ may be the only eq you ever need.  The Nomad suite gets mixed reviews but IMHO the plugins that shine happen to be areas that were needed like the delay effects.
#10
Anderton
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 14:33:14 (permalink)
Don't overlook the Sonitus effects. They're old, but so is a 1959 Les Paul

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Cactus Music
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/16 15:46:57 (permalink)
Sorry I mentioned True Pianos was a bad example as yes I have X3 Studio but my 8.5 is Producer. 
I find I have not even touched on what comes packaged with Sonar yet. I am not one to spend all day doing that. My needs are those of old school recording where you were lucky to have a good reverb, delay, compressor and EQ unit in a rack.. to me it's overwhelming if there are to many choices. I have not ventures past the tools on hand.
Only thing I do find interesting is soft synths that emulate traditional keyboards sounds. Mr Tramp is my only 3rd party plug in so far. The rest is all Cake and Steinberg.  

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#12
jpaul
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/17 10:36:51 (permalink)
Thanks for all the suggestions.
 
Given that there are a half dozen options for classic effects (reverb, etc.) and many options for classic synth sounds, etc., I'm just hoping for a sorted list of what to choose assuming the latest is the best first-choice, without knowing what an older plug-in may have that the newer plug-in doesn't.
 
Perhaps the best thing is to spend some time familiarizing myself with the "tool-set" and make notes about each soft-synth and effect, and perhaps removing those that are redundant and older so the lists aren't so long.
#13
Sanderxpander
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/17 17:07:56 (permalink)
Out of the included reverbs, I would probably go for BReverb 2 Sonar first, and for synth sounds, Z3TA+ although the initial bank of presets that opens is very dance oriented (and a little dated by now).
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gswitz
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/18 00:01:26 (permalink)
All of em.
All of em at once.
 
I did that after watching one of Craig Anderton's mixing vids. I used every one of his tricks in a single sound montage madness. useless. Worthless. Fun learning but ... yuck! haha

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mettelus
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/18 11:43:31 (permalink)
I am not sure if there really is a solution other than to "play around with each one." The advantage with soft synths is that you can replace them, so swapping around is pretty painless. As far as other features, the best way to learn is to play with them by creating things, read the forums, and if you come into a "snag" with something that isn't obvious to ask a question here.
 
The "preset" comments above are accurate... often the first impression of something is what we see through presets, but that may be only a small representation of true capabilities. Digging in further is the best way to understand things best.

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Marcus Curtis
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/04/18 12:05:12 (permalink)
I tend to install and use everything. I use Addictive drums for everything now. but I have older projects that have session drummer. If I ever need to open those projects again I will need session drummer installed to use it. I also installed the r-mix plug from S2 and the VC-64.
 
While I don't rely on the VC-64 as much for future projects. I have older ones that use the plug. that's why I put V-vocal on too. Melodyne is much better. TH2 is better than any previous guitar synth. Breverb is awesome too. I still like and use the Sonitus plugs.
 
To me the big improvements are in the pro channel. Those plugs are awesome. So I tend to use the newer plug- ins but I keep the older ones around for older projects that may be opened.

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#17
jpaul
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/08/04 12:27:43 (permalink)
Here are my notes after going through all my installed synths. I post it here in case others have different opinions about my impressions:

  • Session Drummer 3: Use Addictive Drums 2 instead (more powerful); use this for midi loops?
  • Cakewalk Sound Center: Pretty good quality and variety of all types of samples/sounds. Simple program-specific effects (not customizable, but adjustable), Cakewalk sells expansion packs, not all samples are present in default version (e.g., most brass, etc.)
  • Square I: [use z3ta+ instead] -- 3-oscillator standard synth (not just square waves); funky interface (manual may help?); old school synth sounds
  • Roland Groove Synth: Old school (90s?) replica of sound box with standard patches... not likely useful
  • Cakewalk TTS-1: Basic wav sample player with all standard midi instruments; use as later choice if patch isn't elsewhere; not much customization
  • DropZone: Audio sample playback (.wav) with some modulation (pitch, cutoff, amp, looping), no effects... probably good for percussive effects?
  • SFZ Player: Sound Font Player that plays sf2, wav and ogg files (old file types?)
  • DreamStation: [not installed] -- looks similar to z3ta+
  • Studio Instruments Drums: Use Addictive Drums 2, but the "SI" items do have common midi loops that likely work well together
  • Studio Instruments Bass: Go-to bass guitar
  • Studio Instruments Strings: 1ea Bass, Cello, Violin accompaniment, keyboard split between the 3. Effects and midi patterns available for quick work
  • Studio Instruments Electric Piano: More variety than Lounge Lizard (Rhodes only), but not as much control. Also has many midi patterns matcing other "SI" instruments.
  • Dimension LE: (Use Dimension Pro)
  • Rapture LE: (use Rapture, not LE)
  • Cyclone: Similar to RXP (loop sample player) but seems to allow more simultaneous loops and a large grid for selecting which part of the sample to play when. Probably similar to built-in matrix view in Sonar?
  • Pentagon: [won't run] "Performance Oriented Synthesizer" looks like similar to z3ta+
  • PSYN II: Similar to z3ta+? (classic synth with many controls) but with worse interface; may have unique presets
  • RXP: Sample loop player with slicing and key assignments; plays rx2, wav files
  • Z3TA+ Classic: Powerful classic synth with sounds modifiers (LFO, envelopes, etc.)
  • XLN Audio Addictive Drums 1: (use AD 2)
  • XLN Audio Addictive Drums 2: Should use as default drums, lots of kit samples, customizations, effects, midi patterns (be careful not to use Addictive Drums 1)
  • AAS Lounge Lizard SONAR: Highly customizable rhodes e-piano, but not much else (can purchase other e-pianos). Better sounds when tweaking default presets.
  • AAS Strum Acoustic SONAR: acoustic guitars only (nylon & steel), great strumming midi, non-standard keyboarding. Midi patterns available, effects
  • Rapture: Wave-table synthesizer with advanced sound manipulation capabilities. Very much like Dimension Pro but more geared toward electronic sounds with more parameters; lots of FM
  • Dimension Pro: Wave-table synthesizer with highly customizable (modulators, filters, etc.) with large library of samples, lots of fx, etc.  Can play REX (rx2) files (loops). Similar to Rapture but geared toward acoustic multi-samples. Should be default for acoustic sounds not found in dedicated synths.
  • TruePianos Amber: Go-to for acoustic pianos
  • Sample Tank: Clunky interface, but samples are nice. Use if other options are poor.
#18
scook
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/08/04 12:51:56 (permalink)
Sample Tank is not bundled with SONAR.
 
To run Pentagon, SONAR must be run as administrator.
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Glyn Barnes
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/08/04 12:55:20 (permalink)
jpaul
Square I: [use z3ta+ instead] -- 3-oscillator standard synth (not just square waves); funky interface (manual may help?); old school synth sounds


I would probably use Pentagon, it will run if installed correctly, in preference to Square as they are similar but Pentogon is more powerful and 64 bit.  Z3ta is a different beast all together. You will get sounds out of Square and Pentagon that you can't get from Z3ta and viceversa. Z3ta is more powerful for sure but Square/Pentagon are better for classic analog sounds.
The same applies to some of your other substitutions.

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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/08/04 21:58:47 (permalink)
scook
To run Pentagon, SONAR must be run as administrator.


The registry hack is highly recommend though so you don't have to run as admin. Google it, isn't hard to do but be careful!

I personally try to avoid anything that isn't VST 64 bit to keep things stable and performance good. I always seem to find altenatives I can use that are better than the 32 bit/non vst plugins available. The only plugins I miss are Sonitus.

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#21
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/08/04 22:34:20 (permalink)
Synths:
 
Rapture, Z3TA+2, Dimpro, SFZ player, Addictive drums, Lounge Lizard and TruePianos.  That should cover just about everything you'd need, esp. after picking up some of the Rapt/Z3TA/DimPro patches at patcharena.com
 
Sound Center is basically a collection of sounds from other synths, pentagon and square are a little more analog but I don't use them for that (3rd party like Alchemy).  Most of the rest are older, limited use synths.
 
Effects:
 
Prochannel, Sonitus Suite and Nomad along w/ Breverb and Perfect Space gives you a great collection of effects that more or less covers it all.  But I'll sometimes use the older Sonar/P5 time based stuff - delay etc.
 
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#22
lawajava
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/08/04 22:58:34 (permalink)
I have high hopes I'll get Addictive Drummer to work the way I want some day. It has lots of great kit sounds and patterns and many great included features. I have a number of its add on drum packs.

But I can more easily get what I want out of Session Drummer 3. It works like a charm. It has controls over the individual kit pieces that enable you to easily get a desired balance.

I've seen a number of comments in here to use Addictive Drums instead. I get it. I understand why it's way better. It has built-in effects. I hear the amazing kit sounds.

So far for me, I find AD harder to use and not as efficient to get desired results when compared to Session Drummer 3, which admittedly is simpler in its feature set. Sometimes simpler can be a good thing.

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swamptooth
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Re: Best Soft-Synths and effects to use for X3 Producer? 2014/08/05 02:10:38 (permalink)
Rapture, native-instruments and zebra.

 
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