Mystic38
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A bit of persepective..DAWs
So, I have trouble enough mastering Sonar, so spend zero time looking at other DAWs.. anyways, I tend to jam (PC-less) quite a bit with my synths with everything sync'd up and playing nice and have been looking at midi sync'd loopers..which are pretty scare.
Moving on, as these are >$400, I started looking at Mobius for the PC, then wondered if Sonar matrix view (never used) allowed in cell recording (which would be a looper) but it doesn't.. so then I wondered about Live..
Sure Live has a basic one channel looper function, but the big BIG news for Live 9.1 is...
...... is....
.................. ta DAH!!! ............ "Live 9.1 - now with dual monitor support"...
LOL
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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Beagle
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/22 09:23:19
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what do you mean by "in cell recording"?
in Matrix you can record a clip and assign it to a cell. I don't use Matrix, but I've seen that done on videos.
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Starise
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/22 12:15:04
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If you can send midi out in sync from your gear, you should be able to sync it to Sonar and use sonar as a midi slave. Or the other way around...send midi from Sonar using Sonar as a host to your gear...either way it all syncs together and that means that any loop in Sonar Matrix will play along with your gear which I'm guessing is beat/loop oriented.
I miss my old midi controller with the adjustable midi out tempo control. I could vary the tempo while I played or use it to find an ideal tempo. I could slow my drum machines down...everything.
Intel 5820K O.C. 4.4ghz, ASRock Extreme 4 LGA 2011-v3, 16 gig DDR4, , 3 x Samsung SATA III 500gb SSD, 2X 1 Samsung 1tb 7200rpm outboard, Win 10 64bit, Laptop HP Omen i7 16gb 2/sdd with Focusrite interface. CbB, Studio One 4 Pro, Mixcraft 8, Ableton Live 10 www.soundcloud.com/starise Twitter @Rodein
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Mystic38
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/22 14:00:05
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Beagle
what do you mean by "in cell recording"?
in Matrix you can record a clip and assign it to a cell. I don't use Matrix, but I've seen that done on videos.
Well, given I made that phrase up, its fair to ask :) In matrix you need to record a loop, then put it into a cell.. so, I suspect this is just like the basic arrangement view of Live (which I know precious little about), but its for arrangement of pre-recorded material, while a looper is for recording and arranging completely on the fly..all without stopping. So, if.., while other cells were playing, you could right click on a cell and record direct into it, then matrix view could be a very powerful looper... transport never stops. Certainly need to spend more time with Matrix..
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/22 14:10:39
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Mystic38
So, I have trouble enough mastering Sonar, so spend zero time looking at other DAWs.. anyways, I tend to jam (PC-less) quite a bit with my synths with everything sync'd up and playing nice and have been looking at midi sync'd loopers..which are pretty scare.
Moving on, as these are >$400, I started looking at Mobius for the PC, then wondered if Sonar matrix view (never used) allowed in cell recording (which would be a looper) but it doesn't.. so then I wondered about Live..
Sure Live has a basic one channel looper function, but the big BIG news for Live 9.1 is...
...... is....
.................. ta DAH!!! ............ "Live 9.1 - now with dual monitor support"...
LOL
not sure if this is gonna help you out or not ... In the SONAR X1 Advanced Workshop Video by Craig Anderton there is a chapter on how to set up SONAR as a looper ….. Craig's example in the video shows how to do it with and audio track , including the routing and how to set up the delays …. I was very surprised to learn that SONAR could do that in the first place  Kenny
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Mystic38
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/24 06:16:41
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Thanks Kenny, I will take a look at that!
I downloaded Mobius and have been playing with that inside of Sonar... complicated to setup everything but had some success before an outage wiped everything (one of these days I will forego a tech toy and buy something useful like a UPS).
So far its
a) sonar natively
Not much success so far, but will find the above guide and try.
b) sonar + mobius VST
mobius works but is highy complicated with lots of setup..so still WIP... if i get it all figured out its worth documenting for synth/sequencing nuts.
c) Maschine
supports basic loop recording if you setup everything in advance.. sequencer event, one shot samples and inputs to pads (channels) . Has no undo/redo (which is my #1 need) but can simply record over.
Well.. it was raining yesterday.... lol
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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Mesh
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/24 09:44:10
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Mystic38
Thanks Kenny, I will take a look at that!
I downloaded Mobius and have been playing with that inside of Sonar... complicated to setup everything but had some success before an outage wiped everything (one of these days I will forego a tech toy and buy something useful like a UPS).
So far its
a) sonar natively
Not much success so far, but will find the above guide and try.
b) sonar + mobius VST
mobius works but is highy complicated with lots of setup..so still WIP... if i get it all figured out its worth documenting for synth/sequencing nuts.
c) Maschine
supports basic loop recording if you setup everything in advance.. sequencer event, one shot samples and inputs to pads (channels) . Has no undo/redo (which is my #1 need) but can simply record over.
Well.. it was raining yesterday.... lol
I'm thinking of getting Maschine Mikro2 and will need your advice .......how does Maschine get along in Sonar X3(good/bad/ugly)?? How's the controlling of 3rd party synths etc...?
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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Mystic38
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/24 11:50:57
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☄ Helpfulby Mesh 2014/04/24 12:10:46
So, Maschine come in mk1 and mk2 hardware.. the only real difference is multi colored LED. Then there is Maschine software versions up to 1.8 and then onwards from 2.0
You get a HUGE amount of content with masses of drum kits and patterns.. less rock/blues and more modern industrial offbeat whack type of stuff. But a great platform for easily step sequencer wise, making drum patterns. Its my goto setup.
Midi drum patterns are not typically easily imported, the layout of any one kit is erratic and not typically aligned with GM.. even between NI kits there is not a sensible regular layout..unlike (say) an MC-808, or similar where there are two kicks then two snares then three toms etc all laid out exactly the same regardless of kit...
Its not hard, just time though, to import your own kits and sort them out as you see fit.
The mikro has limited control over VST and editing as its got less knobs and buttons for stuff. it can be done, but there is more menu diving.
Software operation
Maschine 1.8
is rock solid and does what it does really well.. integrates very nicely with Sonar. Not perfect, but there are a few different ways to use it effectively. each drum part can come out on its own audio ch in sonar... nice.
As standalone its a basic sequencer, with limited capability for automation but reasonably efficient. The sampler is good and time stretching finally was implemented.. so with 1.8 its a good reliable drum machine and pattern sequencer. limited internal routing.
Maschine 2.0
was a complete rewrite of the code, and caused initial ugly issues.. (think x1 vs 8.5.3) I believe most of these have been resolved, but it has its own bag of particular problems.. hopefully these will move along...but 2.0 is the future for updates...
If cash but not space is limited, consider a used Maschine rather than a mikro.. not only for use with maschine but it also has a nice midi controller editor that you can make templates for all sorts of stuff if you wish. if you go used, ensure you get the license.. (a user must contact NI to release the license, so look to see the confirmation email)..once released from one user account, it can go to another.
there are some folks upstairs with 2.0 running, or if you are not in a rush, I think I was gonna ante up in next couple of weeks ..but overall its a good package. think a drum synth and massive is included.
tis a lot of rambling..lol..if you want to chat pm me for my cell...
cheers Ian
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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drewfx1
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/24 12:22:37
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Guitar Rig has a looper.
And if you have Reaktor, have you at least checked the user libraries? If you're not a build it yourself type, perhaps someone's already done it.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Mesh
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/24 12:31:56
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Mystic38
So, Maschine come in mk1 and mk2 hardware.. the only real difference is multi colored LED. Then there is Maschine software versions up to 1.8 and then onwards from 2.0
You get a HUGE amount of content with masses of drum kits and patterns.. less rock/blues and more modern industrial offbeat whack type of stuff. But a great platform for easily step sequencer wise, making drum patterns. Its my goto setup.
Midi drum patterns are not typically easily imported, the layout of any one kit is erratic and not typically aligned with GM.. even between NI kits there is not a sensible regular layout..unlike (say) an MC-808, or similar where there are two kicks then two snares then three toms etc all laid out exactly the same regardless of kit...
Its not hard, just time though, to import your own kits and sort them out as you see fit.
The mikro has limited control over VST and editing as its got less knobs and buttons for stuff. it can be done, but there is more menu diving.
Software operation
Maschine 1.8
is rock solid and does what it does really well.. integrates very nicely with Sonar. Not perfect, but there are a few different ways to use it effectively. each drum part can come out on its own audio ch in sonar... nice.
As standalone its a basic sequencer, with limited capability for automation but reasonably efficient. The sampler is good and time stretching finally was implemented.. so with 1.8 its a good reliable drum machine and pattern sequencer. limited internal routing.
Maschine 2.0
was a complete rewrite of the code, and caused initial ugly issues.. (think x1 vs 8.5.3) I believe most of these have been resolved, but it has its own bag of particular problems.. hopefully these will move along...but 2.0 is the future for updates...
If cash but not space is limited, consider a used Maschine rather than a mikro.. not only for use with maschine but it also has a nice midi controller editor that you can make templates for all sorts of stuff if you wish. if you go used, ensure you get the license.. (a user must contact NI to release the license, so look to see the confirmation email)..once released from one user account, it can go to another.
there are some folks upstairs with 2.0 running, or if you are not in a rush, I think I was gonna ante up in next couple of weeks ..but overall its a good package. think a drum synth and massive is included.
tis a lot of rambling..lol..if you want to chat pm me for my cell...
cheers Ian
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU IAN!!! I truly appreciate the info. This review has given me a lot to digest and hadn't thought about a used Maschine......yeah cash is very limited......thus, the Mikro2 route. I've also been reading up on Akai's MPC Studio as well Arturia's SparkLE (closer to my budget lol). Mikro2 seems to be the best choice where integration + the bundled software included has the most to offer. What I'm really looking for is to get a good quality drum/synth controller that's simple/quick in gettng grooves out in creating backup tracks to record my guitar with. Most of these units are so indepth, I don't think I'll end up using 60% (possibly more) of their capabilities. I just don't want to spend a whole lot of time programming/routing, and would rather just plug and play as quick as possible......I know.....I'm being lazy. So, I'm still unsure which one of these (or any others) I should get?? Your review certainly helped. :)
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/24 15:38:26
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very interesting topic…..
I haven't tried the looper aspect of SONAR as of yet ..I can say this with total confidence
what I saw in Craigs video actually had features that SONAR could do as a looper that blew out of the water anything that could be done in the traditional sense of the word …by using a stand alone looper or pedal ...
at some point I hope to try some of that stuff out ….
Kenny
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Moshkiae
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/25 12:56:16
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Hi,
I wish I could get some help on the synth side of things, if not some tools. I wanted to create my own loops off the very sounds that I have come up with, but don't know how to do this, and the sequencer side of the Jupiter 8 software is very intimidating with (likely) too many options to be able to be used in the first place!
But there is an issue here. I have recorded some bass parts on my own and trying to add something over them is not working, and part of it is that I can not hear what i am doing and able to record it at the same time and my setup is probably too weird or sophomoric to get this done right.
But the experts are too busy.
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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Mystic38
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/27 06:37:23
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iirc I think you need to avoid a mikro mk1.. my recollection is that it cannot be upgraded to 2.0 software. So a used maschine mk1 would be cheaper than a new mikro mk2 I suspect.. and for the loss of colored leds you get a much better controller. You wont be lost for kits.. making grooves is really easy.. think realtime recording of pads, or step sequencer, or program in TR mode (like MC505,808 etc).. really easy. If you get Maschine vs Mikro, you can have quite a speedy workflow using just the controller..ie can avoid mousing around. basically you make your pattern variations, then can simply loop them, or string them in pieces (called scenes) to follow a song arrangement. You can change scenes via bangin pads, or using note or pc messages via midi. you can similarly add bass lines or pads etc using their sampled instruments, or insert vst for that. maschine doesn't record audio tracks in a conventional sense... it samples. you can record long samples and use them as tracks, but after each sampling, you need to insert a sequencer event (to initiate the sample playback) and configure the sample playback method.. for standalone easy setup and arrangement of drum grooves, and as a drum machine inside Sonar its really good. tons of sample content, but I suspect you already have better instruments than those that come with mashine.. Mesh
Mystic38
So, Maschine come in mk1 and mk2 hardware.. the only real difference is multi colored LED. Then there is Maschine software versions up to 1.8 and then onwards from 2.0
You get a HUGE amount of content with masses of drum kits and patterns.. less rock/blues and more modern industrial offbeat whack type of stuff. But a great platform for easily step sequencer wise, making drum patterns. Its my goto setup.
Midi drum patterns are not typically easily imported, the layout of any one kit is erratic and not typically aligned with GM.. even between NI kits there is not a sensible regular layout..unlike (say) an MC-808, or similar where there are two kicks then two snares then three toms etc all laid out exactly the same regardless of kit...
Its not hard, just time though, to import your own kits and sort them out as you see fit.
The mikro has limited control over VST and editing as its got less knobs and buttons for stuff. it can be done, but there is more menu diving.
Software operation
Maschine 1.8
is rock solid and does what it does really well.. integrates very nicely with Sonar. Not perfect, but there are a few different ways to use it effectively. each drum part can come out on its own audio ch in sonar... nice.
As standalone its a basic sequencer, with limited capability for automation but reasonably efficient. The sampler is good and time stretching finally was implemented.. so with 1.8 its a good reliable drum machine and pattern sequencer. limited internal routing.
Maschine 2.0
was a complete rewrite of the code, and caused initial ugly issues.. (think x1 vs 8.5.3) I believe most of these have been resolved, but it has its own bag of particular problems.. hopefully these will move along...but 2.0 is the future for updates...
If cash but not space is limited, consider a used Maschine rather than a mikro.. not only for use with maschine but it also has a nice midi controller editor that you can make templates for all sorts of stuff if you wish. if you go used, ensure you get the license.. (a user must contact NI to release the license, so look to see the confirmation email)..once released from one user account, it can go to another.
there are some folks upstairs with 2.0 running, or if you are not in a rush, I think I was gonna ante up in next couple of weeks ..but overall its a good package. think a drum synth and massive is included.
tis a lot of rambling..lol..if you want to chat pm me for my cell...
cheers Ian
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU IAN!!! I truly appreciate the info.
This review has given me a lot to digest and hadn't thought about a used Maschine......yeah cash is very limited......thus, the Mikro2 route. I've also been reading up on Akai's MPC Studio as well Arturia's SparkLE (closer to my budget lol). Mikro2 seems to be the best choice where integration + the bundled software included has the most to offer.
What I'm really looking for is to get a good quality drum/synth controller that's simple/quick in gettng grooves out in creating backup tracks to record my guitar with. Most of these units are so indepth, I don't think I'll end up using 60% (possibly more) of their capabilities. I just don't want to spend a whole lot of time programming/routing, and would rather just plug and play as quick as possible......I know.....I'm being lazy. So, I'm still unsure which one of these (or any others) I should get?? Your review certainly helped. :)
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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Mystic38
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Re: A bit of persepective..DAWs
2014/04/27 06:38:53
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if thems upstairs wont help..just start your own thread here in the basement.. :) Moshkiae
Hi,
I wish I could get some help on the synth side of things, if not some tools. I wanted to create my own loops off the very sounds that I have come up with, but don't know how to do this, and the sequencer side of the Jupiter 8 software is very intimidating with (likely) too many options to be able to be used in the first place!
But there is an issue here. I have recorded some bass parts on my own and trying to add something over them is not working, and part of it is that I can not hear what i am doing and able to record it at the same time and my setup is probably too weird or sophomoric to get this done right.
But the experts are too busy.
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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