Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data

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Scoot
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2014/04/22 13:03:36 (permalink)

Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data

I created a post on the Celemoney website today, 
http://www.celemony.com/userforum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14825&p=0&e=0&sid=0bb942a00ae552f705458315f87cf35c
"When transferring a melodic performance to MIDI, Pitch modulation is not included for use with the pitch wheel. The data is included in the audio, when it's analysed, but for some reason only Note on and off, Velocity and the key of the not is sent. I'm suspecting this is not an oversight, but a technical issue that has some difficulties that are not as apparent to users.

Can you consider if you are not already in the process, to implement this in the future.

As a flute player, it's great to see my vibrato in an analysed take, and to double the performance with a midi sound. Virtual modelled horns are great, but to reach a realistic sound they require more date than a keyboard normally offers, without some clever pitch wheel dexterity. I have a MIDI wind controller (Yamaha WX5) which s suited to this. However, playing a real instrument is a greater joy. To be able to record 3 take on the flute, keep one as audio, assign the other 2 takes to midi and a different horn would be amazing if it had Pitch Wheel data. The subtle differences of the 3 takes would allow an extra realism to the 3 parts when combined.

I also live in a country with a tonal language (they call it tonal in linguistics, but it's pitch modulation on the vowel sounds, rather than formant modulation which really means all languages with more than one vowel are tonal). Without the pitch modulation, Vietnamese in goobledegook, as I well know. Learn a simple phrase but mess up the pitch modulation and you just see blank expressions of confusion from the receiver. I would love to be able to add the pitch modulation to a carrier signal of a vocoder to create intelligible Vietnamese synthesised phrases."
 
In an attempt to demonstrate the potential of such a development, I was wondering if others had any applications for this, I could then share with Celemoney.

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Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot
 
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#1

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    Silhan
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/22 13:39:56 (permalink)
    I'm interested in this as well.  One very minor technical issue is that Melodyne doesn't know how many semitones the min and max pitch wheel values correspond to, but that could easily be specified as a parameter.
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    Scoot
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/22 13:55:26 (permalink)
    and editable in most synths too.
     
    I think Melodyne does know the semitone range. The pitch range it already shows curves of slides, and the point they break from one note to another is either 100 or -100 semitones, is not?

    HP ENVY Notebook - 15t-k100 CTO i7 -4510U CPU @ 2.00 GHZ 8gb RAM. Windows 8.1 64bit Full HD Touchscreen
    Sonar X3 Producer, AAS Complete set, XLN AD Keys and Drums, TH2
    Roland Quad Capture, AudioTeckina 3035 Mic and ATH-M50 Headphones.
    Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot
     
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    #3
    Silhan
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/22 14:13:04 (permalink)
    If I remember correctly, the distance from note to note is one semitone, which is the same thing as 100 cents.  Pitch wheel data ranges from -8192 to +8192.  Like you said, Melodyne knows exactly what the pitch is at any given moment in terms of semitones and cents, but it doesn't automatically know what pitch wheel value to transmit because it doesn't know whether 8192 is two or three semitones (for example).
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    Scoot
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/23 01:18:42 (permalink)
    I knew pitchbend and breath controller were a high res, than just 127 steps, I just thought those 8192 covered a hundred semitones. I assume you set this in a midi controller then (kekyboard), my last keyboard was a Novation Basstation, and have long forgot setting this up. My Midi Wind Controller (WX5) required you to set the 0 point, where you are comfortable holding the pitch bender (reed) in a neutral position. I don't recall this ever being able to bend greater than a semitone in either direction as default.
     
     

    HP ENVY Notebook - 15t-k100 CTO i7 -4510U CPU @ 2.00 GHZ 8gb RAM. Windows 8.1 64bit Full HD Touchscreen
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    Roland Quad Capture, AudioTeckina 3035 Mic and ATH-M50 Headphones.
    Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot
     
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    Silhan
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/23 07:33:49 (permalink)
    (I hope I'm not telling you stuff you already know.)
     
    All the synths I'm familiar with let you set the pitch wheel range in semitones (let's call it X).  So the controller transmits numbers from -8192 to +8192 and the synth bends its pitch between -X and +X semitones around the note being played.  A keyboard controller usually doesn't know or care what the pitch wheel range of the synth is, the controller just transmits raw pitch wheel numbers and the synth interprets them however it's been programmed to do.
     
    I don't have any experience with wind controllers.  I didn't realize they assumed the pitch bend range was always one semitone (or something like that).  But now that I think about it, it makes sense because that's what wind players are used to doing with their real instruments.
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    Scoot
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/23 07:45:35 (permalink)
    Yeah I understand that the synth (sound source) has the setting to respond with PB range, this is the reason I see no "minor technical issue" with melodyne conversion
     
    Sorry if this is going round in circles, but if the pitch mod range is set by the soundsource and not the controller, then surely it's not down to Melodyne (the controller) to know the range of the synth. It will just set the range it detects as a semitone to use the full res of 8192, and for the user to set the sound sources range to correspond to that. (sorry that came out as one sentence)
     
    I suspect that what we are doing is actually agreeing with each other

    HP ENVY Notebook - 15t-k100 CTO i7 -4510U CPU @ 2.00 GHZ 8gb RAM. Windows 8.1 64bit Full HD Touchscreen
    Sonar X3 Producer, AAS Complete set, XLN AD Keys and Drums, TH2
    Roland Quad Capture, AudioTeckina 3035 Mic and ATH-M50 Headphones.
    Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot
     
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    #7
    Silhan
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/23 08:34:34 (permalink)
    Scoot
    if the pitch mod range is set by the soundsource and not the controller, then surely it's not down to Melodyne (the controller) to know the range of the synth. It will just set the range it detects as a semitone to use the full res of 8192, and for the user to set the sound sources range to correspond to that.

    That makes total sense to me.  Please post back if you get a response from Celemony.
    #8
    Scoot
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    Re: Melodyne Midi conversions with Pitch Mod data 2014/04/23 10:16:35 (permalink)
    They have the technology, but it's in Studio, not Editor below. Just seen a reply from Ceremony.
     
    Personally I think that's a bit rude. I think Full Midi Conversion should have been included in moving to Editor from Essential. Editor no longer looks a big step up, more a version in no mans land.

    HP ENVY Notebook - 15t-k100 CTO i7 -4510U CPU @ 2.00 GHZ 8gb RAM. Windows 8.1 64bit Full HD Touchscreen
    Sonar X3 Producer, AAS Complete set, XLN AD Keys and Drums, TH2
    Roland Quad Capture, AudioTeckina 3035 Mic and ATH-M50 Headphones.
    Korg Nanopad2, WX5 Midi Sax, , Soprano Sax, Alto and Soprano Flute, Acoustic Guitar and Epiphone Dot
     
              Scoot not scook
    #9
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