Helpful ReplyUSB Hub Question

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polarbear
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2014/04/24 13:38:47 (permalink)

USB Hub Question

Hey everyone,
 
Quick, probably simple question... Every one of my USB ports is currently in use. I was thinking about getting a 4 port USB2.0 hub for my 2 e-licensors and my mouse and keyboard to free up 3 of those ports. Or maybe even a bigger one like 6 or 7 port. My question is, and I could probably go ask this on a regular computer forum but I like you guys too much so I figured I'd ask here... Is there ANY limitation with using one of these things? Or should I be just totally OK with anything except a harddrive (because I'd imagine in theory the harddrive would be sharing the speed of the port with the other stuff, so it would still work just maybe a little slower). My 2 external harddrives are plugged into my 2 USB3.0 ports anyway, so I think I'll be fine with those. I just want to free up a couple of the USB2.0 ports.
 
Thanks!

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#1
Cactus Music
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/24 14:07:12 (permalink)
You have the right idea by using a hub for simple things like a mouse and the e licencors. 
The thing that you need the most is your audio interface port to be on it's own. 
I also found I could not share a port using a hub for my Keyboard controller and Digital drums, That upset Sonars system of looking for MIDI input devices. I have lots of ports but they are a little far away from those two pieces of equipment so I have this extension cable, I'll have to go buy a couple more.
I just installed this PCIe USB 3 card but it's in the back so kinda hard to get at for my portable drives without an extension cable. 
Which will bring up a question of the whole USB 3 thing, are the cables the same? 

Johnny V  
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#2
DW_Mike
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/24 15:59:48 (permalink)
I have used a hub to free up ports and as stated above I moved my mouse, backup external HD and ilok to it and it worked fine.
I was told that your best bet for smooth operation is to be sure and purchase a powered hub, not one that is powered by the PC,s USB port.
 
Mike
 

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#3
Cactus Music
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/24 17:01:54 (permalink)
The passive hubs are fine if the devices using it do not require USB buss power. 
And I have a feeling that if this is on USB 3 that it might no longer be true. I have not  found much info about it and I am curious if someone here knows about USB 3. All I know is it has a lot more juice available than USB 2 did. The USB 3.0 PCIe card I just installed had to be hooked up with a cable to my power supply. 
 
So for USB 2.0 a powered hub will take the strain off your motherboards limited amount of juice but won't change the transfer speed. It might be overkill if just a bunch of passive things like mice and dongles are in it. 
An external hard drive, some have wall warts and some use buss power. A powered hub is not  really needed for the drive with the wall wart, but will help with juice to the buss powered drive. 
 
Things like mice use very little juice but a hard drive uses a lot. So will be interesting to see what USB 3 can do if power was an issue in the past. 
post edited by Cactus Music - 2014/04/24 17:09:29

Johnny V  
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#4
polarbear
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/24 18:54:20 (permalink)
Thanks guys I will definitely stick to the more passive things like mouse/keyboard/dongles...  Sounds like I'll be just fine going with a simple 4 or 6 port USB2.0 port. And to whoever it was that asked about if 3 has the same cable, the port is backwards compatible, same shaped end that goes in the computer, different on the other end. But yea I'll keep my 3.0 ports just for 3.0 things and make sure my interface and midi keyboard are on their own and I should be good to go :-)

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http://www.imdb.me/davidrosen
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DW_Mike
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/24 19:13:15 (permalink)
Yeah Cactus, the reason for using the powered hub is just to ensure that none of your PC's resources are being used.
I agree that most of the devices moved to the hub are not essential to your recording equipment nor do they draw power from the USB port but for the extra $5 it's worth it just for peace of mind IMO.
Hubs for a DAW are in general, not a good idea but with new laptops only shipping with 3 USB ports, those of us that don't have the extra 2 to 3k to invest in a proper recording lappy have to do what we have to do.
 
I finally got away from laptops to the rig in my sig below.
But for mobile recording I have a laptop with nothing but Sonar on it and my FastTrack pro just to capture the occasional idea that pops up while screwing around with the band.  
 
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#6
The Maillard Reaction
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/25 07:17:30 (permalink)
I don't think of my mouse or keyboard as passive. They seem vital to me and I want them to have minimal interruption as they access the system. I do use a hub for my e licenses.


#7
Jim Roseberry
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/25 12:50:17 (permalink)
I've got three USB dongles on an inexpensive hub.
Works perfectly fine...

Best Regards,

Jim Roseberry
jim@studiocat.com
www.studiocat.com
#8
polarbear
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/25 13:22:57 (permalink)
I ended up ordering the Amazon 4 port USB2.0 hub. Gonna just use it for my 2 dongles, mouse and keyboard. I'll report back if there's any issues but I'm sure there won't be. It has good reviews and it seems simple enough for my needs, since I won't be hooking in any harddrives or audio equipment.

http://www.bydavidrosen.com
http://www.imdb.me/davidrosen
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bvideo
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/27 10:36:35 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2014/04/27 12:23:55
Too late, but here's another approach: sometimes the MB provides more USB connections than will be terminated on the rear panel or front panel. There would be an unused 9-pin header on the MB. You can get a rear panel adapter that supplies two usb connectors per 9-pin header. E.g. this.
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Cactus Music
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/27 11:07:48 (permalink)
I think he's using a laptop. Most desktops towers seem to have at least 4 ports on the front now. I save those for my USB drives as I don't like cables up front. 
I just bought a USB 3.0 PCIe card for $18, but it goes in the back and I need extension cables to make it handy. My MoBo is older than USB 3 so this is a worthwhile upgrade for anyone wishing for the faster transfer speed and extra juice supplied for bus powered gear. 

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#11
Cactus Music
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/27 12:28:43 (permalink)
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB
 
I think we need to pay attention to USB 3.0 as a must have for audio interfaces and USB bus powered controllers. The above article has many very interesting point about things that apply to our needs. Most is way down the page when they start talking about USB 3
 
 
 
USB signals are transmitted on a twisted-pair data cable with 90Ω ±15% characteristic impedance,[99] labeled D+ and D−. Prior to USB 3.0, these collectively use half-duplex differential signaling to reduce the effects of electromagnetic noise on longer lines. Transmitted signal levels are 0.0 to 0.3 volts for low and 2.8 to 3.6 volts for high in full-bandwidth and low-bandwidth modes, and −10 to 10 mV for low and 360 to 440 mV for high in hi-bandwidth mode. In FS mode, the cable wires are not terminated, but the HS mode has termination of 45 Ω to ground, or 90 Ω differential to match the data cable impedance, reducing interference due to signal reflections. USB 3.0 introduces two additional pairs of shielded twisted wire and new, mostly interoperable contacts in USB 3.0 cables, for them. They permit the higher data rate, and full duplex operation.
post edited by Cactus Music - 2014/04/27 12:34:00

Johnny V  
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#12
polarbear
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/27 17:56:47 (permalink)
Definitely using a desktop over here, but I'm using all but one of my USB ports! Haha. Lets see here: Keyboard, Mouse, MIDI Keyboard, Audio Interface, 2 eLicensor Dongles, the USB connection to my Battery Backup... So that's 7 plus the 1 not used, I have 8 ports total (2 of which are USB 3.0). And that's without my Camera for the occasional video chat left plugged in, so when that's in, I'm done.
 
Anyway, the Amazon 4 port hub came in yesterday. Haven't hooked it up yet, but it looks like it will do the trick.
 
 

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http://www.imdb.me/davidrosen
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/28 16:39:31 (permalink)
It may be helpful to keep in mind that ports and connectors are different things.
 
As has been suggested, I used my extra headers on my Motherboard to maximize the number of ports I have available to use. I got one of the back plates with wire leads as shown in the previous post. I also got the same Amazon hub for my dongles, as you have, on the advice of Jim R :-).
 
I have the various USB items spread out across all the available ports in the hope that the motherboard will manage the interrupts more efficiently than if I had everything stacked up on connectors sharing fewer ports.  


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polarbear
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/28 16:59:01 (permalink)
True true. But I don't feel like getting all into that though... I just got a new desk, audio interface and midi keyboard, got everything setup... I don't feel like having to open my tower and do all that now :-)

http://www.bydavidrosen.com
http://www.imdb.me/davidrosen
Winner of Best Song of 2007 at Acidplanet.com!
 
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/28 17:35:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby chefmike8888 2014/04/30 08:53:43
I think I may be mistaken by parsing the word "port" as I have have. It seems like the word is used to describe both the connectors and the ports. I apologize for any confusion I may cause by doing that.
 
In any event, the idea is to spread the work out across the Device Manager.
 
If you ever feel like you have issues you can use USBview from here to poke around your set up and see what is going on.


#16
Cactus Music
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/29 00:09:58 (permalink)
It was only for older OS 32 bit , it looked interesting however. 
I would be curious to know if my 4 front ports are all the same buss. 

Johnny V  
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fireberd
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/29 06:48:17 (permalink)
I would use caution connecting the mouse and keyboard to a USB hub.  Some BIOS will not recognize a hub and thus you will not have access to the BIOS in that situation. 
 
I have two PCIe USB port cards (5 ports on each card) installed in my PC to get enough USB ports.  One USB card is used just for my 5 USB connected CD burner drives.

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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/29 07:02:14 (permalink)
Cactus Music
It was only for older OS 32 bit , it looked interesting however. 
I would be curious to know if my 4 front ports are all the same buss. 




Working great on Win 7 x64 here.


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polarbear
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Re: USB Hub Question 2014/04/30 23:13:43 (permalink)
Well just plugged it in and so far so good... Granted I've barely tried anything but at the very least mouse and keyboard are working and everything else that's plugged in is lit up :-) I was able to leave my 2 USB3.0 ports open for my 2 external USB3.0 harddrives, and now I can fit everything else in the back, leaving my 2 front USB2.0 ports open, which was my goal. Hopefully everything is good.

http://www.bydavidrosen.com
http://www.imdb.me/davidrosen
Winner of Best Song of 2007 at Acidplanet.com!
 
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