The effects of watching HGTV....

craigb
Step 1 - Watch the movie "The Money Pit"
Step 2 - Actually, there is no step 2.
 

 
(I've "been there, done that" and wasted $91k putting in something that really only cost $7k but, in doing so, discovered the house was so where near being up to code...   I've also had a house I was selling get so over-updated that it was one of three houses featured on HGTV, I still have that DVD to remind me of that waste of time and money too...  )

jbow
Think it over... talk to some people. Folks watch these shows about house flipping and think that they can do it (I realize that is not what you are talking about but still...) the people on TV have a lot of experience and they still get in over their head sometime but they seem to have accumulated capital to weather the storm of unknowns and bad decisions. Someone with little experience can lose everything quickly in a flip or a remodel. It is the unknowns that cannot be known until you begin.
 
Now about buying an older home to fix up... it is just like it is on some of these shows. The house looks like it needs this or that until... UNTIL you start to fix things and you discover other things, you open a wall and find things that are not compliant with current building code and pretty soon you figure out that there is asbestos insulation on ductwork, or asbestos siding, the wiring is partially three wire and partially two wire (like my wife's office in a 40s house in town, it has asbestos siding too, we leave it alone.) All the outlets look like they are for thre prong plugs but some only have two wires, the ones we didn't add.
 
The older the house the more likely you are to have to change the plumbing, electrical wiring, add supports, worry about insulation (or the lack thereof)... my parents built their house in the 50s and they did not insulate the outer walls and my dad had a short 2x4 put head high or so between every stud in the walls, to easily hang pictures where ever.. in the future. Result, to insulate the walls with blown insulation, it would have to be done twice, once in the top part of the void and once in the lower. The point being, there is a risk in buying a house to fix up, the older the house, the greater the risk because of the nanny state with all their new building codes.
Home inspectors take NO responsibility for what they find or don't find. Being in the Pest Control industry and doing termite control I can tell you with absolute certainty that no builder builds the same way twice. A builder may build 10 houses in a neighborhood and do 10 different odd things on 10 different houses, they may or may not be up to code and there are different codes. There is the international building code and then different towns have different codes, even some neighborhoods have restriction codes (historic districts control everything you can do or not do to a home. Don't buy a home in a "historic district". Check with the local building inspector to see if there are county, city, state, or international building codes that they go by.
 
Usually if you buy a fixer up and just live in it.. no one says anything but the minute you begin to repair it here comes the government.
 
My sister bought an older home in Monticello, FL. Once they got it they found that the whole place needed to be rewired and needs a new roof. They put off rewiring, life happened and now they cannot afford to rewire and for some reason fixing the roof is involved with the rewiring... result: leaky roof, dangerous wiring, too expensive and no company will insure the house unless everything is brought up to current code. It is a nice looking older home that is slowly falling apart. Building is hard and expensive. Electrical should be done by a certified electrician, there are things you can do yourself, but if you make an error the inspector will make you redo everything and in some cases, if your permits aren't in order they will make you tear something down.
 
I'd say if you are young and strong and if you cover ALL your bases by asking the right people the right questions (take NOTHING for granted... people will assume you know things that you may or may not know) ask more than one person about everything you consider doing. Ask people who do renovations about homes that are the age of any home you consider buying, what common problems are for homes built at that time... don't take a "hme inspectors" word for anything, they are just a tool. They regularly tell people that moisture damage is termite damage... JUST BE CAREFUL AND CHECK ALL YOUR BASES TWICE AND ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS.. THEN ASK IF THERE ARE QUESTIONS THAT YOU DIDN'T ASK.
 
I sound like a bleeding pessimist but I really DO NOT want to hear later that you thought you found the perfect place to fix up but it became a nightmare.
 
All that said... yeah. You can find a place with lots of potential and fix it up to be your dream home, just look before you leap... then look again before you leap.
I'm sure Herb has seen some things too... One thing is sure it will take you more than a hour like it does on TV, it will take more than 30 days like on TV unless you are a pro and know who to call and in what order to call them... that's another thing. If you do some things in the wrong order you may end up having to tear out something you did or had done because no one mentioned that if you want to do that.. you will have to do this first but you already did that and well, you can't do this unless you tear that out...
 
Really, you can do it just don't assume ANYTHING... ever... and ask two different people about everything that you are not sure of.. know your local and state codes and neighborhood rules.
 
J

paulo
I know nothing of the regs in the US, but most of the actual work in fixing something up is just common sense, having the right tools for the job and knowing when to call in some expertise - some things it just pays to get someone in who will do it ten times quicker than you can, which saves you money in the long run. I have fixed up 20+ places over the years, did all my learning in the process and wouldn't hesitate now if the right place came up, although if it is in that bad a state it can be cheaper to just pull it down and start again. Most building contractors will charge a fair bit more per sq.ft of extension than they will for new build because of the inherent difficulties in joining/matching etc, plus here in the UK you can claim VAT (20%) back on new builds, which is a big old chunk of change on a £200k build.

timidi
I tend to think, the only good house is an old house.
If it's old, it will probably need some work though. But, you usually know what you're getting. (Good inspections are crucial).
 
 
Take a nail, and hammer it into a 2x4 of a new house. Goes in like buttah..
Do the same in an older house and you'll usually bend the nail before you penetrate the wood much.
 
I just think that newer homes are built really cheaply with cheap garbage components. 
 
Mesh, since your father in law is a contractor, that puts a BIG plus sign in the fixer upper category.
 

Mesh
 
Speaking of "pulling it down and starting again"......we were actually thinking about this as being a good choice. If I'm not mistaken, I think you only need 1 wall standing up to be considered a renovation whereas if everything was flattened down, it would be considered a "new construction" and the taxes are much higher.  

Guitarhacker
A couple of replies:
 
I was working full time when we bought the house. Actually I was fired the day before the closing (a Thursday, we closed on Friday) and didn't tell my wife until Monday morning..... she would have freaked. I had a job in a few days and used the week in between to do some preliminary work so we could live in one of the rooms without feeling like we were on a camping trip.
I would come home from working all day and then work on the house until bedtime. there's always a way to get the time, plus, weekends were full of renovation work.
 
Tearing it down..... the town I live in has a 51% rule. You can demo 49% of the structure and be within the guidelines for grandfathered buildings. Beyond that, you have to follow the new and existing code requirements. And that may actually prevent anything from being built back due to setback and side yard requirements now. Some of the lots in this town are tiny and the houses are 24" from the property lines on the sides.
 
Regulations on the work:  If you own it, AND if you're going to live in it as a primary residence, you are permitted to do ALL the work including the licensed trades such as electrical and plumbing and HVAC......BUT, you still must pull the permits and have the work inspected and the work must conform to the active relevant code at the time.

Mesh

spacey
I don't know how things work everywhere but the places I've lived I know that a contractor
will cost you 3 times as much, if not more, than what one can do the job for.
 
Many benefits to a newer home. Easy to find out the contractor(s) did- just visit some of the
folks in the hood. After all, the well built newer homes will already have what you'd be trying to
achieve rebuilding an older one...like good electrical wiring so when you grab your instruments they don't
grab you back...and that's just one area of many with home construction.
 
If you don't have experience with all the aspects of building a home you will have a lot of time into learning
about the projects you take on. That combined with paying 3x+ for contractor(s) to do other jobs and you
can end up in a nightmare.
 
Good luck Mesh.
 
 

In dealing with contractors, it looks like I'll need something more than luck Michael. The positive side of getting a brand new construction is that everything is new and nothing needs updating (which I like as I'd rather spend the weekend with the family than fixing stuff). The downside is you get a small lot with barely a yard for the children to play in (we home school out children, so a decent backyard for them to play in and also to grow some veggies/fruits will more or less be wiped out). A backyard is very important to us (of course the house has to be in good shape too).
We both love the "country style" architecture (rap around porches, big yards, mature landscape etc...), but those homes are older homes that are generally in need of upgrades.........and I'll probably need to hire a contractor (unless it's just cosmetic fixes). We're trying to live away from the city, but close enough for Dr.'s visits, groceries, and general conveniences. You would think in FL., where land is abundant, getting a house like this would be fairly easy/inexpensive........nope.........unless you live further than 45 min (1 way) from work. This has been our dilemma for the past 2 years.....

Mesh

How did you manage to "not pay" takes on your home?

Beagle
we get a homestead exemption, but it's not the full value of the yearly taxes, it's a discount on the taxes.