aglewis723
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Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
Hello Everyone,
I wanted to see if anyone has any input on this. It seems like softsynths (bass patches), I have to do a lot of severe EQ HPF work in order to remove unwanted frequencies. I don't understand, if I plug in my hardware synths and play bass patches, no problem. No need for this intense heavy HPF filtering, but for the softsynths, wow... very bass heavy.
Anyone ever notice this?
Thanks,
Adam
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fif4lifefif
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/08 18:07:30
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Hm, I've never had the opportunity to work with hardware synths, so I can't speak to that, but I don't usually have to apply HPF for reasons other than mixing and as an effect.
Is it possible that your input chain is, for whatever reason, attenuating the lower frequencies from your hardware synths, causing you to believe that the culprit is instead the softsynths? Could you upload a sample?
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aglewis723
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/08 18:17:53
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Hi there, Thanks for the reply. My signal chain is DRY. These are just tracks coming right from the softsynths right into a master bus with no effects. I just recorded 4 bars of something very basic with only 3 instruments: drums, bass, pads. The drums come from Arturia Spark, Bass comes from Jupiter-8, and pads from FM-8 (all softsynths). I chose presets and did not modify them. You would think a few very simple presets wouldn't sound so bass-heavy. Here is that sample: https://soundcloud.com/onlyroomforrobots/sound Thank You, Adam
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Lynn
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/08 19:51:35
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Many bass patches are developed for dance music to be played in clubs and over subwoofers. The bass patches in Dim Pro don't have this problem so much, especially the acoustic basses. You may want to audition some different soft synths.
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John
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/08 20:10:56
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I wonder if it could be an octave issue? Your hardware synths may be at a different octave.
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millzy
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/08 21:37:53
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To me the kick sounded a little bass heavy but the other patches sounded fine. Are your monitors a little bass heavy?
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sharke
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/08 22:53:40
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Softsynth patches are usually designed to be as frequency rich as possible so that they sound awesome when you're flicking through them (especially when you're demoing the synth with a view to buying it). That's why they tend to be drenched in reverb as well. It's not necessarily a bad thing - think of it like raw material from which you'll carve out the frequencies you need.
As to why your hardware synths don't seem to suffer from the same problem, I can only hazard a guess that they're designed with live performance in mind, and you're not likely to have a parametric EQ in front of you on stage to carve frequencies out. Whereas a soft synth is more likely to be used in a studio environment where such tweaking is acceptable.
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 11:33:23
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It seems like softsynths (bass patches), I have to do a lot of severe EQ HPF work in order to remove unwanted frequencies. I don't understand, if I plug in my hardware synths and play bass patches, no problem. Its because who ever wrote those patches, wrote them bass heavy. You are comparing different patches from different synths, so they will never sound the same, unless the patch is written the same exact way. It like me cooking a steak medium rare, but you prefer it medium. To each their own. Preset patches are made by someone who has there own personal preferences. You are comparing 2 different patches made by 2 different people, of course they will sound different I can play different patches of violins form 2 different sythns and one will have higher frewqunciers than the other oenj. Its natural and its expected behavior. Cj
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thebiglongy
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 12:05:05
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Nothing sounds bass heavy on this end, I have a feeling it is either your monitors or something to do with your room and problematic frequencies resonating ;)
Sounds fine in my room and on my setup.
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Scoot
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 12:09:10
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Brando
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 12:13:38
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John
I wonder if it could be an octave issue? Your hardware synths may be at a different octave.
I have a feeling John has it - It isn't room related if your hardware synths all sound good to you in the same room. It might be the patches, but it sounds like you feel this is more wide-spread than just a single patch or two. It is common for differences to exist in how a softsynth creator interprets what Midi key corresponds to a particular note on the softsynth - I.E What octave "C3" refers to is up to the softsynth producer. Try going to the Midi tab of the inspector for the track you want to test, and set the "Key+" field to "12" to move it up a whole octave. Easy to check.
Brando
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aglewis723
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 12:17:49
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Brando
John
I wonder if it could be an octave issue? Your hardware synths may be at a different octave.
I have a feeling John has it - It isn't room related if your hardware synths all sound good to you in the same room. It might be the patches, but it sounds like you feel this is more wide-spread than just a single patch or two. It is common for differences to exist in how a softsynth creator interprets what Midi key corresponds to a particular note on the softsynth - I.E What octave "C3" refers to is up to the softsynth producer. Try going to the Midi tab of the inspector for the track you want to test, and set the "Key+" field to "12" to move it up a whole octave. Easy to check.
Hello, It definitely is not an octave issue, move it up an octave and it's too high. I feel like I should be able to take a simple drum machine synth and bass patch and it shouldn't be overbearing which it always is. I find myself having to HPF the crap out of every mix of mine always do to the kick and bass just being overbearing. I understand a little might be necessary, but something just doesn't feel right with this. The mix I uploaded (i created in literally 1 minute), i chose default patches for drums, bass, pads, and it just sounds so bass heavy wherever I take it. The car is always a good test (as I have a nice balanced system in there).
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CJaysMusic
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 12:35:50
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Do all your post come with a free analogy CJ I'm in one of those moods!! To the original poster: Patches are made by a human. The human that makes these patches have their own personal preference. They make them to stand out and be dramatic!! This is why i never use presets. Patches and presets where not specifically made for you and your music. They where made to be picked by people like you and the onyl way for them, to be picked is for them to be so over dramatic and heavy that they stand out. This is normal for most patches. Make your own patches. All synths are tweakable. Learn how to work and program a synth and you will be able to dial in your own sounds that will fir your music. CJ
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brundlefly
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 13:48:18
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I agree with CJay. Patches are very commonly programmed to impress when performed as solo instruments while auditioning synths on the sales floor of the music store. That means kick drums and basses are often going to be way over the top with chest-thumping fundamental frequencies, especially anything made since Hip Hop put the "boom" in Boombox.
I don't know what era your hardware synths are from, but if they're older, their kicks and basses are quite likely to be more subtly programmed than most soft synths. If they're also of a more recent vintage, it probalby just comes down to the specific synth/programmer. You may also be getting an overall lower level out of your hardware synths, depending on what type of audio connection you're using, that makes them seem not so in-your-face initially.
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Lynn
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 14:42:58
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It's my understanding that he's getting this from softsynths, not the hardware. I listened to the example and heard nothing unusual about those patches. I think there's a lot to be said about room treatment and the type of monitors being used. I recently installed the ARC 2 system from IK Multimedia which corrects faults in your room to compensate for your monitors. Perhaps this might solve the OP's problem.
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Anderton
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 14:44:42
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Also, levels have to be matched for a true comparison...Fletcher-Munson, and all that. Even a few dB of extra level can make bass seem overbearing.
When I mix, if the vocals seem a bit too high at low levels and a bit too low at high levels, I know the balance is just about right. The highs and lows "pivot" around the midrange.
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bitflipper
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 23:02:17
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I hear nothing particularly bass-heavy in the sample file. Even the deep synthetic kick is about where it should be. What's that file look like in a spectrum analyzer?
And are you judging it with headphones, speakers, or both? If so, what models?
If speakers, it may be that the patches are exciting a room resonance that makes them sound boomy.
If headphones, they may be bass-hyped, as so many models are nowadays. If you tell us you're using Beatz by Dre that you got for $400 at the AT&T store, that would be the answer! :D
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Cactus Music
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/09 23:22:24
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It's a bit the same when you post your songs in the song forum, there will always be a few who think the song is to boomy, yet it's not really the fact. it's their monitors. I think bass heavy monitors are popular, Now me, I have NSM 10's so I'll say no more...
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brundlefly
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/10 01:28:37
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Lynn
It's my understanding that he's getting this from softsynths, not the hardware.
Yes, what I was getting at is that the hardware synth(s) he's using as a reference might be both quieter and less bass-heavy depending on what era they're from, making the soft synths seem excessively bass-heavy by comparison. Personally, I thought the example sounded a little boomy on my Behringer Truths, but it's hard to draw any conclusions from a single example with a sparse composition that's inherently bass-heavy.
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Baseman
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/10 03:08:12
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Hi:)
I find the Sounds not Bassheavy, normal, in the Mix, it depends on the Music, I would lower the Bass a little bit, perhaps -3 dB, depends on the Arrangement and the additional Instruments, for Dance Music it's very OK!
Baseman.
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Splat 
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/10 08:39:15
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I EQ a lot of synths to give it it's place in the spectrum. They often sound weedy when SOLO'd but of course in the mix it either works or it doesn't. I'm not afraid of EQ and compression with most synths (esp when using a lot of them).
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Zig
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/10 08:52:11
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Maybe try some sidechained compression on the kick so as to separate things out a bit...?...that, and as suggested tweak a preset that in itself may have been deliberately skewed as bass-heavy...and staying away from headphones?(I myself only use heads for spotting artefacts). Does to my limited ear sound like a room set-up and/or referencing thang here.
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Vastman
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/12 00:52:57
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I would suggest playing some of your favorite songs through your system (pull the mp3/waves into Sonar) and see if it is "bass heavy". From other comments to the OP from those of us who've listen to your track it would seem it boils down to your room/speaker set up...since it plays well elsewhere... bass traps and monitor placement help a lot.
In the past year I've gotten heavily into equing frequencies of different tracks so they don't compound/interfere with each other. Has helped a lot. Generally dump low freq. from vocals, guitars, and many other instruments (or at least shelve them) to leave room for the lower instruments...I use a lot of rich low end pieces like DIVA, Damage, Iceni... and they
So I imagine it's a bit of both... room acoustics/monitor placement and oversaturating the low end by additive tracking...
Getting some "flat" headphones like KRK's would be a good test... some like me love um as low end is real and not overdone... from there you can begin equing/sidechaining...
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re: Why Are All My Softsynths (Including Cakewalk ones) so BASS-HEAVY?
2014/05/12 10:35:13
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If you really wonder if your stuff is bass heavy, or whether your hardware synths are not, you can find the correct answer in a minute with an analyser and a reference track or two.
No need to waste time guessing and speculating.
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