How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk?

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mixmkr
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2014/05/22 21:27:33 (permalink)

How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk?

I started with CoolEdit when I first started computer audio in the mid 90's...., of course Sound Forge and CD architect, etc.  Then jumped to Sonar 6 when that version first came out, mainly for the MIDI....then sporadically upgraded with Cake ...and now to X3e where I've dug in pretty decently.  I'm fairly comfortable with X3, but realize there will always be much to learn, better work flows etc.
 
My question, given the above background and long time recordist, but also that I have NEVER used ProTools in all this time, but for sure have seen screen shots, etc...  Would I be able to walk into a studio and start using it right off the bat without having major issues?   Seems most DAW software is similar in the main respects, but if I was a guessing man, I'd say X3 is probably more complicated that PT11.
 Or...if I spent a day mucking around with it...it would all fall into place?
 
The probability of using PT11 in a nice facility seems to be a likelihood in the near future, and wondering if I should buy a copy and learn it at home first.  I would be tracking, engineering and mixing, but not on a strict time clock to start.  Most likely helping with projects for others as well.

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    mixmkr
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/22 21:45:11 (permalink)
    Also I assume PT11 HD and PT11 software is basically the same?  Since non AVID supported I/Os are in use, I would guess I'm talking about PT11 too.

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    #2
    Dave Modisette
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/22 21:50:18 (permalink)
    There's a lot different about PT11 once you get past the most basic concepts of inputs and outputs.  There's a lot of hot keys to learn or you will spend a lot of time searching through drop down windows and learning different terminology.  I suggest buying a copy and a week of evening practice will help you to be rudimentally proficient.  Features like Beat Detective and Audio Warp will take more time.  

    Coming straight from SONAR the first time I tried it out, I hated it.  It didn't make much sense to me but after playing musical DAW chairs and learning three other programs, the second time was the charm and after I spent some time studying it, I really liked it a lot.  Even though I like the  ARA implementation of Melodyne in SONAR X3 and Studio One 2,  PT11 has become my main recording program because of the GUI and the versatile bussing capabilities.  Beat Detective and Audio Warp rocks.

    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

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    #3
    Dave Modisette
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/22 21:52:14 (permalink)
    PT11 HD has some real time monitoring advantages over PT11 Native but with my RME HDSP 9652 card, I don't suffer because of it.
     

    Dave Modisette ... rocks a Purrrfect Audio Studio Pro rig.

    http://www.gatortraks.com 
    My music.
    ... And of course, the Facebook page. 
    #4
    mixmkr
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/22 22:28:57 (permalink)
    thx Mod.  I've checked out quite a bit of YouTube stuff, and it seems the stuff PT11 doesn't have, like the prochannel and the host of other stuff, it has its' own version of things.  Warp audio seems very much like AutoSnap in many ways, and just stuff like the basic routing didn't seem odd.... which is good.

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    #5
    Anderton
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/23 00:28:11 (permalink)
    My current version is PT 10, so I may have missed some extra goodies in PT 11 but in any event, Pro Tools was always the program I recommended for people who were transitioning from 2" 24-track and a mixer to a computer. It's not a single-window program like Sonar X-series, Live, or Reason; people from the tape world were comfortable going to something with separate mixing and recording windows and an obvious, simple workflow.
     
    Pro Tools has maintained that stripped-down, traditional recording paradigm while adding features like warp audio, floating-point audio engine, non-real-time bounce, envelopes that didn't require a separate folder, and Beat Detective, although almost always after these features had appeared in other programs. I'm sure there are features I'm overlooking, but other than Beat Detective I really can't think of anything offhand that Pro Tools innovated since it first appeared. MIDI is improved, although still not on a par with the Cubase/Logic/Sonar trio - the emphasis remains on audio recording and mixing. Including a version of Sibelius for notation is a plus but note that although a lot of people assume it's a full version, it's not. FWIW I think the stretchable content that's included is above average in terms of putting sketches together quickly in various genres.
     
    What you won't find at all is pretty much anything relating to dance, beats, or EDM other than warp audio. You can't Acidize files or create Apple Loops, there's nothing like the matrix view, no step sequencer, etc. You can't do something like turn a wav file into a stretchable loop, drag it to the desktop, then drag it back in somewhere else. If I had to do EDM on Pro Tools, I'd probably go insane. Same with comping; X3 really changed the game for DAWs in general with that one. I found punches a lot easier in PT than comping (if the artist was any good).
     
    PT's PDC is primitive compared to Sonar and other programs, which has tripped me up more than once with things like the UA plugs. But at least it exists now, and I think the worst of its issues have likely been sorted out.
     
    Dave is right about the shortcuts, I suggest investing in one of those Pro Tools-specific QWERTY keyboards. If you don't and get one later, you'll kick yourself for not having bought it sooner.
     
    For tracking, editing, and mixing, Pro Tools will do what you need it to do, and do it more or less like everyone else so there's not much of a learning curve. As long as you stay within its proscribed functionality, Pro Tools is a relatively painless experience (assuming a sufficiently powerful computing environment, of course). But if you want to venture even a little bit out of the box, it can be very frustrating. I did a hip-hop session back in October that tracked with Pro Tools but when it came time to mix, I had to bring the tracks into Sonar. I couldn't do what was needed in the PT environment.
     
    So why do I use Sonar instead of Pro Tools? I do a huge variety of projects that require an equally huge variety of production techniques. I need to be able to shift from rock, to EDM, to remixes, to a quickie soundtrack, to narration, to restoration, etc. There are even some mastering techniques I've developed that can be done most efficiently in Sonar, and I have not found a program whose workflow is compatible with so many project types. But if my goal was simply to track musicians, edit the tracks, do punches, and mix, Pro Tools would do everything I needed.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    BlixYZ
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/23 07:47:00 (permalink)
    at the very least, you should watch lots of videos.  Beat detective and warp are great tools (better implementation than Audio Snap), but you may never even use them- depending on what type of work you'll be doing.
     

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    #7
    mixmkr
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/23 14:01:24 (permalink)
    Wow...great replies.  Thx Craig, as I am coming from a 2"/console background, and what I've seen didn't seem so strange.  I LOVE Sonar and can't dream of switching, but I think I'm going to have some opportunities to work at other places that run PT11.  Plus, I can see doing stuff created there and bring home to work on and a copy of PT11 might be in the future, JUST for that reason.  Like I said, I am totally stoked with Sonar, but it looks like I might have to "give in" and be a little more flexible with what DAW I might have to use.
    It looks like owning X3, that I might have some stuff to offer as well, that PT doesn't excel in.  That's some good news too.

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    Anderton
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/23 18:15:04 (permalink)
    mixmkr
    Wow...great replies.  Thx Craig, as I am coming from a 2"/console background, and what I've seen didn't seem so strange.  I LOVE Sonar and can't dream of switching, but I think I'm going to have some opportunities to work at other places that run PT11.  Plus, I can see doing stuff created there and bring home to work on and a copy of PT11 might be in the future, JUST for that reason.  Like I said, I am totally stoked with Sonar, but it looks like I might have to "give in" and be a little more flexible with what DAW I might have to use.
    It looks like owning X3, that I might have some stuff to offer as well, that PT doesn't excel in.  That's some good news too.




    You need Pro Tools to read Pro Tools project files. Not sure if you can use OMF to transfer but that's iffy anyway. However, with all due respect to PT, what I would do at PT studios was track with it then grab the WAV files as soon as possible and continue the project in Sonar. A lot of this was to overcome major PT limitations that have been mitigated since then, but now Sonar has progressed as well, so it offers tools that weren't available when I was grabbing those PT files.
     
    If all DAWs disappeared tomorrow except for one, any one, I'd still be able to make music. I just find that the process of creating music from start to finish goes faster for me with Sonar. I have Sonar tweaked to where it is a part of the actual songwriting process. That's why I've been so prolific lately (at least by my standards), as my YouTube channel will attest. I don't write songs anymore and then record them; it's all one process. I'll be talking about specific techniques along those lines during my [shameless plug] workshop at Gearfest on June 7th. It's in a slot opposite Jason Bonham talking about Led Zeppelin so I suspect there will be plenty of time for individual instruction 

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    mixmkr
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/23 18:35:18 (permalink)
    Yeah...I'd just would carry around a hard drive or thumb drive and not deal with file conversions, etc.  That's why having PT at home as well, would be easiest.  Then no conversion when going back to the studio also. Thanks for bringing that up though.

    Jason who ??  :-D

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    #10
    djwayne
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/23 22:32:46 (permalink)
    No step sequencer or Pro Channel in PT ?? That's a deal breaker for me. 
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    BJN
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/23 23:18:42 (permalink)
    When I was getting into music on computers Protools and Cubase were all I'd heard of.
     
    I tried the LE Win 98 version of Protools but couldn't get it to work. Probably my crap PC.
     
    A friend had Cubase SX3 and I was just about to get it when another friend showed me his Sonar 6.
    It was just more intuitive for a new comer  like me than the others. I decided to buy it and it was less than SX3.
     
     
    As computers have become more powerful DSP hardware isn't needed so interfaces are cheaper than ever.
     
    Protools ruled once because computers were not powerful you needed an interface with DSP power.
    Commercial studios needed that reliability and thus Protools the defacto standard.
     
    Many heavily invested in Protools systems and defend their expensive purchases to this day and one thing is for sure PT user base are loyal. Even today it has the best youtube tutorial support of all the DAWs.
     
    That makes it more accessible to learning it than any other DAW
     
     
     

    -------------------------------------------------------
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    And the corollary: if magic happens inspiration might flog it to death with numerous retakes.
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    djwayne
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/24 00:19:48 (permalink)
    Learning Sonar isn't hard, there's tons of support and learning tools available. Affording PT's was a problem for me. Their demo's never worked right on my computers and would crash constantly for me. So saving up for a program that would crash so much never made any sense to me. Sonar was my best solution. 
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    LpMike75
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/24 01:49:31 (permalink)
    When I jumped from Sonar to Pro Tools I wanted to bang my head against my desk on many of occasions.  I pretty much hated Pro Tools, coming from Sonar.  But after learning it, I think it is an incredible program and worth all the hype....when doing audio editing and post production.
     
    For creating music I prefer Sonar by a mile.  I couldn't live without my Sonar synths.  (oh and track templates/effect chains!)
     
    Sonar for audio editing and post production would make me want to bang my head against the wall though.
     
    Craig had a good post above, he and I disagree on one point, the comping feature in Pro Tools is way faster for me.  I still haven't figured out a good workflow for X3 comping yet.  Also, time stretching in Pro Tools is light years ahead of audio snap.  Actually, audio snap might be the worst thing about Sonar (outside of staff view).
     
    I'm rambling lots of points.  To answer your question, there is a fairly large learning curve going to Pro Tools from Sonar.  I enjoy both programs now, but only break out PT11 HD when I am doing post or surround work.


    - Mike
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    #14
    mudgel
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/24 05:22:41 (permalink)
    I've got PTHD 9. Is the upgrade to 11 worth it. It's $999 so it's not cheap.

    Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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    BlixYZ
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/26 20:09:43 (permalink)
    LpMike75
    When I jumped from Sonar to Pro Tools I wanted to bang my head against my desk on many of occasions.  I pretty much hated Pro Tools, coming from Sonar.  But after learning it, I think it is an incredible program and worth all the hype....when doing audio editing and post production.
     
    For creating music I prefer Sonar by a mile.  I couldn't live without my Sonar synths.  (oh and track templates/effect chains!)
     
    Sonar for audio editing and post production would make me want to bang my head against the wall though.
     
    Craig had a good post above, he and I disagree on one point, the comping feature in Pro Tools is way faster for me.  I still haven't figured out a good workflow for X3 comping yet.  Also, time stretching in Pro Tools is light years ahead of audio snap.  Actually, audio snap might be the worst thing about Sonar (outside of staff view).
     



    Yes, I agree with everything you say here EXCEPT about comping.  The new comping in SonarX3 is brilliant and leaves my clients literally speechless.  You must learn it.  It has changed the way I record (for the better).  
     
    Totally agree about stretching in PT vs. Audio snap.

    James W
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    BlixYZ Records

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    #16
    Zo
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/26 21:07:45 (permalink)
    Anderton
    My current version is PT 10, so I may have missed some extra goodies in PT 11 but in any event, Pro Tools was always the program I recommended for people who were transitioning from 2" 24-track and a mixer to a computer. It's not a single-window program like Sonar X-series, Live, or Reason; people from the tape world were comfortable going to something with separate mixing and recording windows and an obvious, simple workflow.
     
    Pro Tools has maintained that stripped-down, traditional recording paradigm while adding features like warp audio, floating-point audio engine, non-real-time bounce, envelopes that didn't require a separate folder, and Beat Detective, although almost always after these features had appeared in other programs. I'm sure there are features I'm overlooking, but other than Beat Detective I really can't think of anything offhand that Pro Tools innovated since it first appeared. MIDI is improved, although still not on a par with the Cubase/Logic/Sonar trio - the emphasis remains on audio recording and mixing. Including a version of Sibelius for notation is a plus but note that although a lot of people assume it's a full version, it's not. FWIW I think the stretchable content that's included is above average in terms of putting sketches together quickly in various genres.
     
    What you won't find at all is pretty much anything relating to dance, beats, or EDM other than warp audio. You can't Acidize files or create Apple Loops, there's nothing like the matrix view, no step sequencer, etc. You can't do something like turn a wav file into a stretchable loop, drag it to the desktop, then drag it back in somewhere else. If I had to do EDM on Pro Tools, I'd probably go insane. Same with comping; X3 really changed the game for DAWs in general with that one. I found punches a lot easier in PT than comping (if the artist was any good).
     
    PT's PDC is primitive compared to Sonar and other programs, which has tripped me up more than once with things like the UA plugs. But at least it exists now, and I think the worst of its issues have likely been sorted out.
     
    Dave is right about the shortcuts, I suggest investing in one of those Pro Tools-specific QWERTY keyboards. If you don't and get one later, you'll kick yourself for not having bought it sooner.
     
    For tracking, editing, and mixing, Pro Tools will do what you need it to do, and do it more or less like everyone else so there's not much of a learning curve. As long as you stay within its proscribed functionality, Pro Tools is a relatively painless experience (assuming a sufficiently powerful computing environment, of course). But if you want to venture even a little bit out of the box, it can be very frustrating. I did a hip-hop session back in October that tracked with Pro Tools but when it came time to mix, I had to bring the tracks into Sonar. I couldn't do what was needed in the PT environment.
     
    So why do I use Sonar instead of Pro Tools? I do a huge variety of projects that require an equally huge variety of production techniques. I need to be able to shift from rock, to EDM, to remixes, to a quickie soundtrack, to narration, to restoration, etc. There are even some mastering techniques I've developed that can be done most efficiently in Sonar, and I have not found a program whose workflow is compatible with so many project types. But if my goal was simply to track musicians, edit the tracks, do punches, and mix, Pro Tools would do everything I needed.


    Anderton
    My current version is PT 10, so I may have missed some extra goodies in PT 11 but in any event, Pro Tools was always the program I recommended for people who were transitioning from 2" 24-track and a mixer to a computer. It's not a single-window program like Sonar X-series, Live, or Reason; people from the tape world were comfortable going to something with separate mixing and recording windows and an obvious, simple workflow.
     
    Pro Tools has maintained that stripped-down, traditional recording paradigm while adding features like warp audio, floating-point audio engine, non-real-time bounce, envelopes that didn't require a separate folder, and Beat Detective, although almost always after these features had appeared in other programs. I'm sure there are features I'm overlooking, but other than Beat Detective I really can't think of anything offhand that Pro Tools innovated since it first appeared. MIDI is improved, although still not on a par with the Cubase/Logic/Sonar trio - the emphasis remains on audio recording and mixing. Including a version of Sibelius for notation is a plus but note that although a lot of people assume it's a full version, it's not. FWIW I think the stretchable content that's included is above average in terms of putting sketches together quickly in various genres.
     
    What you won't find at all is pretty much anything relating to dance, beats, or EDM other than warp audio. You can't Acidize files or create Apple Loops, there's nothing like the matrix view, no step sequencer, etc. You can't do something like turn a wav file into a stretchable loop, drag it to the desktop, then drag it back in somewhere else. If I had to do EDM on Pro Tools, I'd probably go insane. Same with comping; X3 really changed the game for DAWs in general with that one. I found punches a lot easier in PT than comping (if the artist was any good).
     
    PT's PDC is primitive compared to Sonar and other programs, which has tripped me up more than once with things like the UA plugs. But at least it exists now, and I think the worst of its issues have likely been sorted out.
     
    Dave is right about the shortcuts, I suggest investing in one of those Pro Tools-specific QWERTY keyboards. If you don't and get one later, you'll kick yourself for not having bought it sooner.
     
    For tracking, editing, and mixing, Pro Tools will do what you need it to do, and do it more or less like everyone else so there's not much of a learning curve. As long as you stay within its proscribed functionality, Pro Tools is a relatively painless experience (assuming a sufficiently powerful computing environment, of course). But if you want to venture even a little bit out of the box, it can be very frustrating. I did a hip-hop session back in October that tracked with Pro Tools but when it came time to mix, I had to bring the tracks into Sonar. I couldn't do what was needed in the PT environment.
     
    So why do I use Sonar instead of Pro Tools? I do a huge variety of projects that require an equally huge variety of production techniques. I need to be able to shift from rock, to EDM, to remixes, to a quickie soundtrack, to narration, to restoration, etc. There are even some mastering techniques I've developed that can be done most efficiently in Sonar, and I have not found a program whose workflow is compatible with so many project types. But if my goal was simply to track musicians, edit the tracks, do punches, and mix, Pro Tools would do everything I needed.



    May i ask you what do you think about ableton live , also on the engine and pdc ?
     
    sorry to hijak but Craig point of vue is valuable for me ;)

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    #17
    LpMike75
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    Re: How similar is PT11 to Cakewalk? 2014/05/26 22:30:34 (permalink)
    BlixYZ
    LpMike75
    When I jumped from Sonar to Pro Tools I wanted to bang my head against my desk on many of occasions.  I pretty much hated Pro Tools, coming from Sonar.  But after learning it, I think it is an incredible program and worth all the hype....when doing audio editing and post production.
     
    For creating music I prefer Sonar by a mile.  I couldn't live without my Sonar synths.  (oh and track templates/effect chains!)
     
    Sonar for audio editing and post production would make me want to bang my head against the wall though.
     
    Craig had a good post above, he and I disagree on one point, the comping feature in Pro Tools is way faster for me.  I still haven't figured out a good workflow for X3 comping yet.  Also, time stretching in Pro Tools is light years ahead of audio snap.  Actually, audio snap might be the worst thing about Sonar (outside of staff view).
     



    Yes, I agree with everything you say here EXCEPT about comping.  The new comping in SonarX3 is brilliant and leaves my clients literally speechless.  You must learn it.  It has changed the way I record (for the better).  
     
    Totally agree about stretching in PT vs. Audio snap.




    I should really take a couple hours and just focus on the new comping feature.  I have no doubt it's a good workflow, just a matter of getting used to it.  


    - Mike
    Sonar Platinum - M-Audio Profire 2626 , Pro Tools 11 HD Omni - PC I7 6850K - 64 G RAM - GeForce GTX 970
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