[Resolved] I uninstalled X3 Producer and went back to Studio

When I re-installed X3 Studio I found that the default Track View was no longer popping up as I tried to start a new project.   All I saw was a blank space where there used to be one audio track and one midi track plus other features.  How can I get the old view set back?  

Hi Conrad, if you modify a new project as you would like to see them appear, you can then "save as..." choose "template" and call it "Normal"
 
The "Normal" template is the default used when SONAR creates a new project (if using the "Normal" option (also default)).
 
As to your question, X3 Producer's "Normal" template is totally blank for me as well, so it may have been overwritten on the installation of Producer. I actually left it alone, since I have grown to like simply right clicking and adding the track type I want to start off with.

Soft Enerji
I have no idea what could be causing your problem but have to ask...........why did you feel the need to go back to Studio?

Ditto this. Does that mean you purchased both X3 Studio and X3 Producer and are NOT using the latter? Strange.

cpkoch
 

Soft Enerji
NOT using the latter? Strange.

I can't get Producer to do the things I purchased it for  .. Transpose Formant Scaling in particular.  Moreover it is not recognized  as having been installed as I try to apply the  X3e patch. 

Well if Producer can't do what you want, then i don't think Studio will!
 
You must be something a bit out of the ordinary for a patch not to work. I'm sure if you want to try again you'll get a bucketload of help.

cpkoch, I asked this on one of your other threads - I'm not sure you answered.  Is X3 the first version of Cakewalk you ever had?  The formant tool you want is in the previously available V-Vocal, which has now been thrown out for Melodyne.  But people who had earlier versions of Cakewalk still have V-Vocal available to them in X3 - doesn't matter if it's Studio or Producer, since those are the same program with extra synths and other plugins added to Producer.
 
V-Vocal was/is great for the formant editing you're talking about.  It's really essential on vocals when you're shifting up or down - you have to correct the formant for the pitch shift to sound natural.
 
Randy

The Formant tool is not part of Melodyne Essential, the version bundled with SONAR X3 Studio and Producer. Here is a chart comparing the different editions of Melodyne http://www.celemony.com/en/melodyne/functions

Thanks ...wicked
 
Generosity is my middle name as long as it costs me next to nothing; however, you're on for one ... in that  round of drinks.  

Sounds to me like you should spend the money upgrading Melodyne rather than Sonar.

rbowser
I don't think you've ever said why this quest for Formant shifting is so important to you though - What exactly do you need it for?

If needed for background vocals, and you just want to a bit of the "sped up" or "slowed down" effect and don't need to do precise formant shifts and corrections, there's a highly inelegant but effective workaround.
 
1. Create a premix of the song that starts at the beginning. Mute all other tracks.
2. Open the premix in the Loop Construction window.
3. From the Clip drop-down menu, enable Stretch On/Off.
4. Move the Threshold slider all the way to the left (0%) so all the markers disappear. This is very important.
5. The two right-most fields adjust semitones and cents respectively. Do not enable the Pitch button! That will just confuse things. Cents will adjust +/-49 cents which should be enough. If not, for example if you need to make the pitch 70 cents sharp, set semitones to 1 and cents to -30.
6. Render the clip, and it will reflect the pitch/speed changes you made.
7. After adjusting the pitch, create a track and record your new clip (e.g., background vocals) while monitoring the premix.
8. If you started recording anyplace other than the beginning, slip edit the new clip to the beginning, bounce the clip to itself to add this extra length, then open the newly recorded clip in the Loop Construction window.
9. Repeat step 3, but this time, adjust pitch equal and oppositely. For example if the premix was -36 cents, set cents for the new clip to +36.
10. Bounce the new clip to itself, and now it will be at the correct pitch and tempo but with a different formant and character. You may need to trim the end, as Sonar will still think this is a loop and repeat part of the beginning. You can now delete the premix.

Anderton...Unfortunately it was a tech support nightmare...A lot of the crash reports Cakewalk received had V-Vocal's fingerprints in there somewhere...

I think a lot of those crashes happened to users who insisted on have large numbers of V-Vocal instances in a project, having the plugin do its thing in real time, instead of rendering the results of each instance to an audio clip. 
 
I've never, literally never had V-Vocal cause a crash.  My habit is to use it on a small clip of a few seconds duration, and once I'm happy with the results, I bounce the results to clip.  V-Vocal is gone, the edit is in place, and later if I need to revert to the original, it's conveniently parked there in the track, muted, ready to be un-muted again.
 
I think rendering the edits from Melodyne is probably the best approach also, instead of trying to have it do its work in real time, don't you think, Craig?
 
Randy

rbowser
I don't think you've ever said why this quest for Formant shifting is so important to you though - What exactly do you need it for?  You can see I agree it's an essential part of convincing pitch shifting, and Cakewalk has done users a disservice by no longer having a Formant shifting tool, but I've never used any kind of shifting more than sparingly.  Why do you need it so much that you paid $150 for the upgrade because you thought you'd be getting it?
 
Randy
 
 

I can't point to a specific goal but for about two months now I have been singing, recording and producing, each week, one or two of the top hit songs of the 50's and 60's.  I've been posting the songs on a YouTube channel I created ...  http://www.YouTube.com/user/cpkoch  
 
I am not a instrumentalist so I use backing tracks I buy from one of a few online sources.  Because my range (unless my underwear is very tight) is such that sometimes I can't reach the higher registers I usually need to transpose the backing tracks.  Consequently I often need to bring the key down two or three half-steps or sometimes up a few. It feel more comfortable vocally speaking.When I do that, however,  I get some weird sounding  and unwanted tones ... especially in the back-up vocals and in the bass parts.  Hence I am looking for an easy way to correct the modified backing track.  I found that, before I bought Sonar when I was using Audacity or WavePad, if I created modified backing tracks an octave apart and mixed them the weird tones seemed to be ameliorated (love that word).  
 
Anyhow ... that's the story about why I'd like a to use Formant Scaling feature.
 
Why spend the $150?  I guess that I am just a sucker for a deal that get's me an upgrade for less that half price. Moreover I had but a few minutes to act before that deal went south so to speak!  It turns out however, I probably don't need it. I'd rather have vodka in my martini than have the drums thing and plugins that accompany Producer.
 
As an aside, I mistakenly thought that I was getting Melodyne Editor with the Producer upgrade which would have made the deal worhwhile just for that upgrade. Unfortunately, after the fact, realized that I was stuck with Melodyne Essential.          

If all you are doing is transposing a stereo wave file, then there are lots of Wave editing software apps that can do this.  
I use Wave lab as an example. Elements is only $98. I'm not sure but other, even freeware like Wavosaur might also do this.     http://www.wavosaur.com/
 
The further from the original you go, the more contaminated the track becomes. Your talking a whole 4th there. That might be on the outer edge of possiblity for the math it takes to do this smoothly.
You see if a song goes up a 4th, the bass is now a guitar, the kick drum a tom etc. You go down to a 4th
Bass notes might be subsonic etc.
Have you ever explored the option of using MIDI files? One thing Sonar excells at is making the most of a midi file.
 
 
I say this as I use backing tracks I make myself and a some of them will start out as a free downloaded midi file. I build from there, But I do play guitar which is something ( thank goodness) a midi file will suck at. But I have been asked to transpose CD backing tracks for others, and best results were with Wave Lab, but only a few steps up or down. Like in your case up to G  or down to say E is a easy one but up as far as A might go wierd, Bb possibly for sure.

rbowser

Anderton...Unfortunately it was a tech support nightmare...A lot of the crash reports Cakewalk received had V-Vocal's fingerprints in there somewhere...

I think a lot of those crashes happened to users who insisted on have large numbers of V-Vocal instances in a project, having the plugin do its thing in real time, instead of rendering the results of each instance to an audio clip. 
 
I've never, literally never had V-Vocal cause a crash.  My habit is to use it on a small clip of a few seconds duration, and once I'm happy with the results, I bounce the results to clip.  V-Vocal is gone, the edit is in place, and later if I need to revert to the original, it's conveniently parked there in the track, muted, ready to be un-muted again.
 
I think rendering the edits from Melodyne is probably the best approach also, instead of trying to have it do its work in real time, don't you think, Craig?
 
Randy

I'm not sure that's the correct analysis Randy.
 
Back in version 6/7 & 8, I could, and did have many track & clips with V-Vocal on them - all live, none bounced, and they never caused a problem.
 
But this weekend, I tried to apply VV to a single short, clean, free of bleed clip with good levels** and every time I tried it, Sonar would crash to the desktop.
 
** This was on a project originally created in an earlier version of Sonar, though I'm not sure which version!
 
The solution was to copy the clip to a new, blank project, do my V-Vocal work in there, render it, then copy it back.
 
If anyone else attempts to try this, make sure your new project has the same tempo map & time sig as your original project, otherwise it will get screwed!

cpkoch

Anderton
 
If needed for background vocals, and you just want to a bit of the "sped up" or "slowed down" effect and don't need to do precise formant shifts and corrections, there's a highly inelegant but effective workaround.

I appreciate your giving me a work around; but, I am not far enough on the learning curve to appreciate what you are telling me Craig. As an example of what I would like to do, the backing track, You Raise Me Up,  http://syzygy-llc.com/Songs/You%20Raise%20Me%20Up.wav is what I am currently trying to transpose.    I trying to transpose it to the key of Bb. Not being at all adept at reading music, I think it is now in the key of F.
 
Will the technique you suggest fulfill my need?  If so I will give it a go!

Going from F to Bb is five semitones - that's a lot, and even a formant shift wouldn't help much (if at all). The iZotope algorithm is about as good at it gets and handles formants well, so you best bet for now is to use the Process > Transpose function on a copy (just in case) and transpose up 5 semitones. But the quality will be iffy at best. You'll really can't go much more than a couple semitones either way with the sound quality getting dicey.
 
The technique I suggested is very effective with small shifts, but no way it would help you with a five semitone change.
 
I always start off writing songs in MIDI. That way I can change the tempo and key easily until I find what's "just right." Then I start adding the audio parts.
 
I also suggest going back to Producer. You'll find over time it has lots of hidden gems that justify the price. Melodyne Essential can do a lot - listen to my latest YouTube video, where I recorded only ONE vocal track. All the harmonies and doubled parts were derived from that single track with Melodyne Essential.

V-Vocal hasn't been patched or updated in a long time. It drifts further away from the OS with each passing year.