[Solved] Is it a BUG?

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injainja
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2014/06/21 03:43:10 (permalink)

[Solved] Is it a BUG?

Hi guys,
 
very strange things happening here.
I imported this midi-file: 
 
and assigned it to TTS-1
All is working well.
 
BUT as soon as I assign the "Drums*STANDARD"-track to the SI-Drum Kit, the DI-Drum Kit will stop working - it will become mute. Not even hitting the drums via mouse will revive it. Only deleting SI-Drum Kit alltogether and re-adding it, will make it work again. But only until you assign the Drums*STANDARD to it - it will become mute again.
 
Can you reproduce?
#1

28 Replies Related Threads

    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 08:15:04 (permalink)
    I have been digging a bit further and found out, that the midi works if I delete the embedded controle changes. So it is propably some corrupt entries, that is causing the problems?
    I have isolated the midi and uploaded it here:

    Maybe someone is curious enough to test it?
    #2
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 08:16:07 (permalink)
    Ah - damn. No URLs allowed...
    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 08:39:47 (permalink)
    That's actually a fairly common occurrence when importing midi tracks.
     
    I have amassed a pretty sizable collection of free midi tracks of a bunch of rock and prog tunes from the 70's, and sometimes some of the tracks will have embedded events that I have to go in an delete for them to work properly.
     
    I look at it that it's still a lot quicker to go in and fix the occasional weird track than it would be to work the whole song up from scratch on my own - so I remain quite happy that folks take the time and have the desire to put forth the effort into creating and distributing these midi files.  :)
     
    A happy camper - Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #4
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 08:48:36 (permalink)
    Hi Bob,
    good to know, that this is not my problem, but a general one :-)
    Interesting enough, all the Cakewalk VST reacted the same way, by becoming mute; whereas 3rd party VST stayed cool...
    Say, is there a way to delete the embedded events inside X3?
    #5
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 10:50:27 (permalink)
    Just view the Event List for the midi track in question, and you can delete events from the beginning as needed.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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    #6
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 11:12:26 (permalink)
    All right! There it is.
    JFYI, in case anybody runs into future trouble with that.
    Right at the beginning of the track was following line:
    RPN / Pitch Bend Sensitivity / 256
    It was marked orange, so next time a midi misbehaves, just look for orange lines ;-)
    I deleted it, and DrumKit worked fine.
    @SONAR (in case someone is reading this!)
    You should make a bugfix for ALL of your VSTs to filter out orange lines, instead of allowing them to kill your instruments ;-)
    If you need the midi, which caused all this trouble, just drop me a line here and I will send it to you via Email.
    #7
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 11:14:55 (permalink)
    All of the sfz engine synths (Cakewalk Sound Center, DimPro, Rapture, the SI series and Session Drummer) have trouble with the control data typically found at the beginning of MIDI tracks designed for GM instruments. As Bob points out, opening the tracks in the Event viewer and stripping out the control data at the beginning of the track should solve the problem.
    #8
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 11:19:19 (permalink)
    ...which I will definitely do in the future.
    BUT, has cost me almost the whole day.
    It shouldn't be difficult for CW to establish a simple routine, which will do the filtering of unwanted stuff to prevent such things to happen. Even if the fault is within the midi, everybody will at first think, that it is X3s fault. Which - in a way - is true, isn't it?
    If it was my software, I would do everything in my power to prevent such things ;-)
    Anyway - thanks for the help everybody :-)
    #9
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 11:28:37 (permalink)
    This issue crops up every few months or so, so it could have been searchable in the forum.
     
    I don't think Sonar should be in the business of automatically deleting midi event data from imported tracks, so I disagree that the issue is caused by something Sonar failed to do.
     
    Sonar DOES give you the ability to see and delete whatever you wish from your midi tracks, and once you are aware of this issue, it takes a matter of a minute or 2 to open up and remove the target events.
     
    Glad you have this worked out - good luck with it all.  :)
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #10
    lawp
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 11:34:20 (permalink)
    How would sonar know what's 'unwanted'?

    sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
    #11
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 12:16:17 (permalink)
    @lawp: Well, if it kills the VST, then I would consider it "unwanted" ;-)
    All the other 3rd party VSTs were not affected at all, so I guess they must have some sort of fail-safe mechanism, which X3 doesn't have.
    @Bob: Thnx, you too :-)
     
    #12
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 12:32:09 (permalink)
    The issue is not X3, it is the sfz engine synths bundled with X3. The synths could have been designed to ignore the data or throw a dialog indicating unrecognized/unexpected data in the track, instead the synths go silent. It has been this way ever since the inventor of sfz developed the first sfz engine synth for Cakewalk.
    #13
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 12:44:32 (permalink)
    Ah. Thanx for clarifying. In that case I would wish for the future, that the engine would give a dialog to delete undesired data in an automated process. Would save some time, I guess. 
    #14
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 13:40:15 (permalink)
    I wonder if it is worth writing a quick CAL script to delete all RPN/NRPN data in a midi track.  It seems easy enough to do.
     
    Bob Bone
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
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    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
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    #15
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 13:47:00 (permalink)
    CAL would work for now. The CAL free way would be to create a preset for the MIDI Event Filter MFX and "Process Effect" or just add the plug-in to the MIDI track.
    #16
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 13:48:18 (permalink)
    @Bob
    Could you do that?
    I would wash and kiss your feet (metaphorically speaking) if you would do and share that...
    ;-)
    #17
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 13:57:28 (permalink)
    @scook
    Doesn't work. Even if I filter everything but the notes, sfz will mute the instrument.
     
     
    #18
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 13:59:44 (permalink)
    Any chance of uploading the MIDI file or project somewhere?
    #19
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 14:01:15 (permalink)
    I already uploaded it, but I cannot post any Urls... wait a second, maybe I can trick the forumscript ;-)
    #20
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 14:03:07 (permalink)
    You appear to have enough posts to add links now.
    #21
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 14:06:15 (permalink)
    Allright, let's try it.
    Ah, I can post links now :-)
     
    www.echt-gute-tattoos.de/test.mid
     
    That's it.
    Try the drums or the piano with Si-Drum Kit or Si-String Section and you will see what I mean.
    #22
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 14:33:01 (permalink)
    The MIDI Event Filter worked OK. In the plug-in on track 11, I clicked on the Event Selection All button, then ran the values down to zero for RPN# and Value columns for both RPN's and NRPN's. At that point either leave the plug-in in the MIDI drum track or apply the effect. I only tested track 11 and the SI Drums but the process is the same anywhere an sfz synth is used in the project.
    #23
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 14:47:21 (permalink)
    Ah, yes. Works now. I overlooked, that my track was split and the filter only took effect on the second half. Created a Preset and I am a happy camper now!
    Thanks once more.
    #24
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 14:49:32 (permalink)
    injainja
    @Bob
    Could you do that?
    I would wash and kiss your feet (metaphorically speaking) if you would do and share that...
    ;-)


    YOU DO NOT WANT TO DO THAT.  I wear a size 17 (53.5 in European sizing), and these feet have seen DECADES of playing basketball.
     
    I will look into all of this later tonight - have to watch Germany play kick ball.  :)
     
    Bob Bone
     
     

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
    Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) 
    Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22
    Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64
    Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others
    MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es
    Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms  
    #25
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 14:52:46 (permalink)
    The filter does not have to be applied on a per-clip basis, it can be applied to the entire track using the FX bin. If the FX bins are not visible in the track header, modify the track header using the drop down at the top of the track view just below the track view menus to the right of the time display. It is the drop down labelled "Mix" in the illustration below from http://www.cakewalk.com/D...amp;help=Views.02.html (ignore the red box)

    #26
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 15:00:14 (permalink)
    @Bob:
    Ah, you are from Germany? Na, dann wünsch ich mal einen schönen Abend. Ich wohne südlich von Berlin (ehemalige Mitte der DDR) ;-)
     
    @scook
    Gosh - I feel like such a bloody n00b. Thanks for bearing me - your tips are very much appreciated.
    X3 is soooo huge. I already watched over 10 hours tutorials on youtube, and haven't even covered the tip of the iceberg...
    #27
    injainja
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 15:01:40 (permalink)
    @Bob2
    Like that?

     
    #28
    scook
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    Re: Is it a BUG? 2014/06/21 15:09:57 (permalink)
    Yes there is a lot going on in X3, unless I actually use what a see in a video or read in a book, it is quickly forgotten. On the other hand, this experience with sfz synths and MIDI will probably be remembered for some time.
    #29
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