DragonBlood
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 142
- Joined: 2014/07/04 03:06:20
- Status: offline
Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
Title says it all. What's the difference between just stacking FX on a track in the FX bin, vs an FX chain?
when I'm just stacking FX on a track, does the order I applied them in matter?
|
John T
Max Output Level: -7.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 6783
- Joined: 2006/06/12 10:24:39
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 05:46:40
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby DragonBlood 2014/07/10 19:51:48
The order they're applied in matters in both cases, yes.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
|
FastBikerBoy
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 11326
- Joined: 2008/01/25 16:15:36
- Location: Watton, Norfolk, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 06:18:54
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby DragonBlood 2014/07/10 19:52:10
The main difference between an FX chain and stacking them in the FX bin is you can recall the chain all in one go "en masse", whereas the stack has to be built from scratch every time.
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 06:24:00
(permalink)
For me the second main difference is that you loose ACT once the effect is in FX chain...
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
- Total Posts : 6475
- Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
- Location: Boston, MA, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 07:27:59
(permalink)
ACT should work even in fxchains as long as the plugin UI is open and has focus.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 08:25:05
(permalink)
As mentioned above the effects in the chain are treated as a unit which can be saved and recalled. FX Chain is also the wrapper used for standard plug-ins in the ProChannel. FX Chain provides more automation options such as an additional gain control before and after the effects and the ability to automate multiple controls on the effects in the chain with a single envelop.
|
rebel007
Max Output Level: -72 dBFS
- Total Posts : 926
- Joined: 2013/07/17 11:24:29
- Location: Victoria, Australia
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 08:39:29
(permalink)
I find it quickens my workflow. When I'm songwriting or just playing with melodies, I usually have a certain set of plugins that I use because I know them well and can work with them quickly. By putting them in an effects chain it's just a single click and drag from the browser and they are set up ready to go.
Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired) CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
|
gswitz
Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5694
- Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
- Location: Richmond Virginia USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 08:45:12
(permalink)
Noel, act does not work properly on FX chain nobs and buttons in my experience. For this reason, I often can't put th2 in the pro channel.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
|
RickJP909
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 155
- Joined: 2013/02/07 18:40:33
- Location: London, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 08:45:32
(permalink)
So when using an FX chain, which you can re-use on several tracks, does it use the same plug-ins, ie, they become common to all tracks where you use them like a bus therefore saving CPU or does it use a separate instance?
Thanks.
Synth Hardware Aficionado! Moog Sub 37, Roland MKS-70/XV-5080/JV-1000/JP-8000/JP-8080/Boutique JP-08, Oberheim Matrix-1000, Korg EX-8000/MS2000B, Novation Super Bass Station/A-Station/Drum Station 2/Supernova 2, E-MU Orbit-3, Edirol UM-550/880, Lexicon MX300, Akai MPD226, Mackie ProFX22, M-Audio Delta Soundcard. PC: AMD FX-6350, 8GB RAM, Samsung 840 EVO SSD, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit, Sonar X2a Producer/Platinum (32-bit).
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 08:50:28
(permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
ACT should work even in fxchains as long as the plugin UI is open and has focus.
There was a discussion about that, but I can not find it. If that was not you, someone else has explained there why it does not work (on purpose).
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
WallyG
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 833
- Joined: 2013/05/03 11:37:52
- Location: Arizona
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 08:58:59
(permalink)
scook
....and the ability to automate multiple controls on the effects in the chain with a single envelop.
scook, Would you please explain in more detail since it's not clear how you can achieve this. Thanks, Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 09:20:46
(permalink)
Assign the effect controls to a knob or button in the FX chain. An FX Chain has 6 knobs or buttons with 4 slots each to bind to effect controls. Each FX Chain knob and button may be automated.
|
gswitz
Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5694
- Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
- Location: Richmond Virginia USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 09:23:49
(permalink)
The nobs, buttons and sliders on the FX chain should work with act whether in the pro channel or the FX bin. In my experience they don't work with act properly. Someone in support on the phone replicated the issue.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
|
WallyG
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 833
- Joined: 2013/05/03 11:37:52
- Location: Arizona
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 09:36:04
(permalink)
scook
Assign the effect controls to a knob or button in the FX chain. An FX Chain has 6 knobs or buttons with 4 slots each to bind to effect controls. Each FX Chain knob and button may be automated.
The part that confuses me is your statement that multiple controls (knobs and buttons) can be automated with single envelope.
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
|
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
Cakewalk Staff
- Total Posts : 6475
- Joined: 2003/11/03 17:22:50
- Location: Boston, MA, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 10:00:16
(permalink)
gswitz
Noel, act does not work properly on FX chain nobs and buttons in my experience. For this reason, I often can't put th2 in the pro channel.
They are supposed to work :) Do you have a CWBRN number for it?
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 10:02:45
(permalink)
WallyG
The part that confuses me is your statement that multiple controls (knobs and buttons) can be automated with single envelope.
There are 8 possible envelops which may be created for an FX chain; input gain, volume and the 6 knobs or buttons. Each knob or button has 4 slots to associate with controls exposed on the plug-ins in the FX Chain. For example, load the Drums "Fat Tom With Reverb" FX Chain preset. Right-click and edit the Shaper button. It toggles three bands on the equalizer. Right-click and edit the Compress knob. It controls compression threshold and ratio. Automating the Shaper button or Compress knob affects the underlying plug-in controls. Although in this example the knob and button affect multiple controls on the same effects, it is possible mix plug-in controls on the same knob or button in the FX chain.
|
gswitz
Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5694
- Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
- Location: Richmond Virginia USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 10:06:02
(permalink)
No, but I'll make a video. It was the time when I made the video for using my gr20 with th2. I called support because in the video the automation envelope doesn't write when it should. As part of that call we demonstrated the pc act goofiness with FX chains.
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 11:26:21
(permalink)
Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
gswitz
Noel, act does not work properly on FX chain nobs and buttons in my experience. For this reason, I often can't put th2 in the pro channel.
They are supposed to work :) Do you have a CWBRN number for it?
After I have understood that proper ACT mapping requires not very intuitive procedure with 2 SONAR restarts, it works fine for me. But I can imagine not everyone went so far ;)
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
musicroom
Max Output Level: -51 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2421
- Joined: 2004/04/26 22:31:02
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 11:26:48
(permalink)
DragonBlood
Title says it all. What's the difference between just stacking FX on a track in the FX bin, vs an FX chain?
when I'm just stacking FX on a track, does the order I applied them in matter?
Reading through this thread, I'm not sure we have highlighted the process of using the prochannel presets to also save the plugins, settings and order. I like this technique best for my workflow vs fx chains since you get to recall both the pc modules and all the other fx in one save. Us users simply drag the desired fx onto the prochannel, a new fx bin appears and then we can tweak both the fx and prochannel modules to taste. After that we can save the prochannel preset for endless recalls. You get the best of both worlds this way. As most know, the prochannel fx bin also includes a control layer for assigning knobs and buttons to the "grouped" assortment of fx in the pc-fx-bin. I seldom use chains in the standard way anymore except for the treats that cakewalk creates for us to get ideas from... Those are fun to learn from.
Dave Songs___________________________________ Desktop: Platinum / RME Multiface II / Purrfect Audio DAW I7-3770 / 16 GB RAM / Win 10 Pro / Remote Laptop i7 6500U / 12GB RAM / RME Babyface
|
WallyG
Max Output Level: -74 dBFS
- Total Posts : 833
- Joined: 2013/05/03 11:37:52
- Location: Arizona
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 12:02:05
(permalink)
scook
WallyG
The part that confuses me is your statement that multiple controls (knobs and buttons) can be automated with single envelope.
There are 8 possible envelops which may be created for an FX chain; input gain, volume and the 6 knobs or buttons. Each knob or button has 4 slots to associate with controls exposed on the plug-ins in the FX Chain.
For example, load the Drums "Fat Tom With Reverb" FX Chain preset. Right-click and edit the Shaper button. It toggles three bands on the equalizer. Right-click and edit the Compress knob. It controls compression threshold and ratio. Automating the Shaper button or Compress knob affects the underlying plug-in controls. Although in this example the knob and button affect multiple controls on the same effects, it is possible mix plug-in controls on the same knob or button in the FX chain.
scook, Just as "A picture is worth a thousand words", I tried your example and it cleared up my confusion. Cool! Thanks! Walt
Roland Jupiter 80, Roland D50, Roland Integra 7, Roland BK-7m, Yamaha Montage 6, ARP Odyssey, Excelsior Continental Artist, Roland FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 Professional, Melodyne Studio 4, Behringer X-Touch, RME Fireface UCX, MOTU MIDI Express XT - ADK Pro Audio Hex Xtreme 6 Core i7 4.5GHz, 64GB, 480GB SS, 3 X 3TB Hard Drives, Win 10, 2 X 27" & 1X 46" Monitors, My WEB site - www.gontowski.com/music
|
CJaysMusic
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 30423
- Joined: 2006/10/28 01:51:41
- Location: Miami - Fort Lauderdale - Davie
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 13:02:55
(permalink)
☼ Best Answerby DragonBlood 2014/07/10 19:50:01
DragonBlood
Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin? Title says it all. What's the difference between just stacking FX on a track in the FX bin, vs an FX chain?
when I'm just stacking FX on a track, does the order I applied them in matter?
You do not need FX chains. You do not need stacking them. There is no difference in sound. Its a matter of personal preference. If you like using FX chains, then use. If you like stacking them, then stack them. CJ
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/10 18:20:25
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby jps 2014/07/11 01:27:29
If you're a guitar player, think of FX chains as a pedalboard - you don't need to patch your effects together from scratch each time. (No batteries, either!) Being able to control multiple parameters simultaneously is wonderful. For example, one of my favorite techniques is that with a compressor, you can control the threshold and makeup gain simultaneously so that regardless of the amount of compression, the output level remains constant. You can also create your own GUI, which may seem trivial but an artistic GUI always seems like more fun to use 
|
gswitz
Max Output Level: -18.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5694
- Joined: 2007/06/16 07:17:14
- Location: Richmond Virginia USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why do I need an FX chain vs stacking FX in the FX Bin?
2014/07/11 06:34:12
(permalink)
StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen. I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
|