Helpful ReplyX3 w/Mac

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vocals07
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2014/07/22 11:21:31 (permalink)

X3 w/Mac

I have been using Sonar for years, and years. I am going to Pro Tools 11. The audio engine and buffering alone is way worth it. Sonar has come a long way but needs work still on the buffering and audio engine. Also I wonder why they haven't made X3 for Mac?
#1
dubdisciple
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 11:45:09 (permalink)
Because making a version for Mac entails them thinking they could grab enough Mac buyers to justify the cost of developing native cross platform code from the ground up. To have a firm share of market competing against apple made software you have to either :

1) Already have a huge market share prior to apple product becoming popular( pro tools, Avid, Cubase
2) Be a large enough company to offer complimentary products that dominate market like Adobe (Photoshop, illustrator and after effects work so well with premiere many opt for suite/cloud over final cut since they will be using the former products anyway)
3) Offer a product similar but with key specialized functions Apple does not do nearly as well ( Ableton, FL Studio)

What Sonar offers to PC users is probably not as big of a value to Mac users. Effects are debatable but no doubt the instruments bundled with Logic come out ahead mostly on the strength of a better sampler option. I prefer Sonar but I think it's a hard sell to someone used to Logic.

All the legacy DX code would have to go, meaning older but still useful plugs like Sonitus go bye bye. I'm sure peoplenot used to using would not care but just the presence of so much legacy code could create development expenses not worth return. I suspect Cakewalk/Gibson wants more stability before battling a jugernaut.
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KPerry
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 11:55:08 (permalink)
Separately, I'm sure people would like to know explicitly what you mean by "the buffering and audio engine"...
#3
Ruben
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 12:06:55 (permalink)
There are also considerations of dealing with Apple and the guidelines/restrictions they place on developers. Samplitude had announced the intention to produce a Mac version and started development, but eventually pulled the plug partly due to dealing with Apple's development issues.
 
I'm imagine that some of The Bakers have at least talked internally about Apple development and are more informed than most of us about the developmental and financial drawbacks to a Mac version of Sonar.

  
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Splat
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 13:56:25 (permalink)
If your issue is buffering it's probably down to your audio interface. Development on the mac platform is expensive and risky. The market is already cornered anyway. BTW Pro tools is not immune to audio engine crashes, far from it.

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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Anderton
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 14:06:19 (permalink)
CakeAlexS
If your issue is buffering it's probably down to your audio interface. Development on the mac platform is expensive and risky. The market is already cornered anyway. BTW Pro tools is not immune to audio engine crashes, far from it.



Having engineered many sessions in Pro Tools and having PT10 installed on the same Windows computer that runs Sonar, I get more tracks at lower latencies with Sonar than with Pro Tools. Also Sonar's PDC is more mature. However matters might have changed with PT11, I haven't upgraded it.

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Anderton
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 14:11:02 (permalink)
As to why Sonar isn't on the Mac, many reasons but there are also technical ones. Sonar works on really deep levels of Windows and the effort required to port it over to the Mac would be huge.
 
Another consideration is that the $199 version of Logic has really made competition difficult. I believe that all DAWs on the Mac, except for a program like Ableton that isn't a DAW in the conventional sense, have lost market share. Anecdotally, it used to be when I gave seminars and asked Mac users which DAW they used, it was mostly Pro Tools. Now it's mostly Logic.
 
IMHO Logic is the most "Sonar-like" of the various Mac DAWs, but that's of course a very subjective opinion.
 

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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dubdisciple
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 17:41:34 (permalink)
Logic is certainly a lot more like Sonar than Pro Tools but very very different still.
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sharke
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 17:49:39 (permalink)
ProTools has it's merits, but I found it much less stable and prone to pops and clicks when using lots of VSTi's. I suffer instability with synth-heavy projects in Sonar too, but far less.

James
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dubdisciple
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 18:09:56 (permalink)
I find pro tools to be the worst of the major DAWS for visrtual instruments.  Most Pro Tool users I know compose in other programs and mix and record in pro tools.
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forkol
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 19:22:53 (permalink)
Well, how do we know that's it's not being developed for MAC?
 
There was an interview awhile ago with Michael Hoover (CEO of Cakewalk) in Computer Music Magazine, where he basically stated that it was unlikely that Sonar itself would be ported to MAC, but it was much more likely that a something new would be developed instead.  I kinda take that at least a change in that in the past they use to say it was never going to happen.
 
 
 
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Sanderxpander
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 19:33:47 (permalink)
They already developed two iPad apps.
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Anderton
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 19:36:42 (permalink)
Rapture and Dimension Pro are cross-platform.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/22 23:09:29 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby bapu 2014/07/26 17:28:52
forkol
Well, how do we know that's it's not being developed for MAC?


I think there is as much chance as Microsoft developing android phones, making them look like windows phones and then immediately discontinuing them..... Oh hang on a second...;)

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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kennywtelejazz
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/24 04:27:33 (permalink)
I used to wish they had developed SONAR for Mac , I'm not so sure now considering it might just be a form of wishful thinking (on my part ).
 
I find that Logic is a friendly enough environment to work and compose in …
 
anyway a couple of things from my SONAR X 3 were able to port over ...
 
Melodyne and Addictive Drums have a 2 computer license …i brought those over and they are very nice additions 
 
I'm happy that the Z3TA+2 plays and sounds nice on my Mac …It is a welcome addition and it is very usable 
 
I seem to be sool regarding The Dimension Pro or Rapture …….they are not supported in any OSX 10.7 and up 
 
I'm starting to understand how useful OMF actually is 
 
 
 
Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2014/07/24 04:59:13

                   
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#15
bobguitkillerleft
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/25 00:26:09 (permalink)
I was assured a few days ago that bootcamp turns a mac into a windows machine just by choosing Windows at boot:http://www.gearslutz.com/board/10275668-post2.html
 
Iv'e been wondering for a while as I would like a mac mini,the most affordable way to delve into appledom,however I'm positive there would be issues with drivers and such,and I'm sure it's possible Windows would have trouble with thunderbolt [depending very much on how you would want to use it,like trying to run a UAD satelilte for ex.?]
 
I do have a coolerrmaster silencio cased desktop[sig.] i7 2600k,but I find myself still using my [very quickly dying at barely 3 y.o.]dell xps 2011 laptop a lot more,but I do not want or trust a lot of the current Win laptops,esp. with the 80% markup in price we aussies are supposed to pay here compared to the same[though usually with inferior or lower rated cpu's @ more $]hardware,as you fortunate folks in the US.
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Edit: It's very odd actually,somethings are almost similar in price-high volume goods mostly,but not always,anyway a macmini i7 2.3GHz before ANY options in your country is $850 AUD,over here it's $999 AUD which is better than it was,but that is only 4GB RAM,again before ANY real world options are chosen.
post edited by bobguitkillerleft - 2014/07/27 18:49:19

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#16
kitekrazy
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Re: X3 w/Mac 2014/07/26 14:02:53 (permalink)
Apple updates their OS more frequently than Microsoft.  That creates more havoc among end users and developers of cross platform software.  I've been on forums where users of NI products and Live go through frustration when an Apple OS is updated.
 
 On a side note I found it interesting that Live 8 users were getting better performance on their MBPs running Live on Bootcamp and Windows 7.
 
 I wonder how sales are since Sony released Soundforge for Mac. There are people who hope Vegas moves to Mac because Avid MC is a four figure app.
 
  One DAW that was Mac only is now available for PC, can't remember the name.  Logic being Mac only was the biggest mistake.  When they made that decision, not everyone switched to Mac. After the switch I remember seeing Logic  priced just under a grand.  
 
  I brother is a Mac user and one thing I learned from that is one takes for granted all of the free utilities/software for Windows is unavailable.  Something similar usually has a price tag. A proprietary world offers more stability but less freedom. I'll take the latter.
#17
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