Did I Offend Someone?

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cpkoch
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2014/07/22 16:12:44 (permalink)

Did I Offend Someone?

I've received no replies concerning my request for input on the Melodyne revisions of Green Door and Wayward Wind. That's OK; but, it's  unusual on this forum.  I am wondering if it was offensive to some folks. 

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    markno999
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/22 18:50:32 (permalink)
    Cpkoch,
     
    I think the lack of response is just due to the summer months and recent 4th of July holiday, vacations, etc.....  
     
    Anyway, I listened to your posts,  I like the music and main vocals, however, I find the Melodyne harmonies to be really un-listenable.  The harmonies themselves are ok but the artifacts stick out to the point that they are really ruining the rest of the performances.   If I could sing like that, I would use the Melodyne harmonies as a guideline and re-sing the harmonies.   It would be night and day better.   I like the performance, don't like Melodyne.
     
    Regards
    #2
    RussjWhite
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/22 19:05:43 (permalink)
    I've also replied. And also stated about learning to use melodyne or keeping clear of it.  I agree with Mark. 

     
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    #3
    cpkoch
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/22 20:40:33 (permalink)
    Thank you both (Mark and Gus)  for your forthrightness. Melodyne, I realize can produce some weird effects ...robotic effects as some have said.  I have also noticed that when a change that you thought you had made is bounced to the clip, often times that change has vanished. The production of Artifacts might be the result!  Have you found that to be the case?  In any event I am just beginning to understand the nuances of the whole matter of producing tunes. I've no absolute goal in mind except to have fun while learning and attempting to hone my skills of lack thereof!
     
    Thanks again for your feedback.  I truly value it!   

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    #4
    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/23 09:17:52 (permalink)
    Yep.... I don't comment as often as I used to...
     
    Melodyne, when it's used right is a great tool. But it's easy to abuse it and get artifacts. The idea to use it to create the harmony but then use auto punch and record a new straight up vocal harmony track.....  I think that would sound better, and if the notes are sharp or flat, using ME to fix THAT, is not a big deal.  Also, I find that NOT fixing a vocal harmony that is going to be lower in the mix than the lead, seems to work well and add character without detracting from the quality of the overall mix.
     
    I probably only "fix" the harmonies on about half of the harmony tracks in my music as a result. The lead almost always gets fixed, BUT.... only where it needs fixing. I work with ME manually, phrase by phrase on an "as needed" basis.
     
    The harmonies in the song Green Door just sounded a bit too "fake" to my ears.  Take the time to redo them by singing them. Use what ME gave you, as a guide. Take it a phrase at a time if needed.

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    #5
    Rimshot
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/23 10:12:31 (permalink)
    +1 Guitarhacker

    Rimshot 

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    optimus
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/25 10:17:56 (permalink)
    Connie, you seem to have a fine baritone voice. You can sing in in tune and time, so it beats me why you smother it in effects.
     
    Lose all those effects, and let your natural voice come out front. Then, if you feel you need  some sort effect,   mix that in ever so gently allowing your natural voice be front and centre.
     

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    rscain
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/25 10:31:44 (permalink)
    optimus
    Connie, you seem to have a fine baritone voice. You can sing in in tune and time, so it beats me why you smother it in effects.
     
    Lose all those effects, and let your natural voice come out front. Then, if you feel you need  some sort effect,   mix that in ever so gently allowing your natural voice be front and centre.
     




    +1
    I like your choice of material, too.

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    #8
    Starise
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/26 10:24:15 (permalink)
    FWIW I also attribute the lack of response at times to lack of attendance over the summer...of course we have our regulars, but people drift in and out off and on and admittedly some people don't listen to others music and only post their own. Some other forums actually have a rule that you must listen and respond to two or more songs before you can post your own. I think that's a pretty good rule. I understand that it's tough to actually slow down for some people and take the time to listen. For me it can be tough to do especially when I am not into the type of music it is, but I find that I'm better for doing it and I have started to realize the value in listening to others creative works and understand the time and effort that might have gone into it, and appreciate the creativity.........having said that I'm usually lucky if I have the time to listen to more than three or four songs at a pop, so if yours happens to be one I missed, please don't take that personally.
     
    There are some flaws as I see it to the whole system. People are naturally more prone to commend someone elses music if they received a great comment from that individual or are in a circle of friends with them. Some people won't say anything if they don't like something, which is simply the worst thing they could do because this area exists to help people improve. I have heard some pretty bad music passed off as ok here because the opposite thing happened and everyone gave the artist a gold star.. If someone actually hates a genre though, I don't think they should be forced to comment on it because they aren't objective right from the start.
     
    I'll admit I'm not the most fond of the type of music you posted. On a list from 1 to 10 it might be a 4 in terms of my interest in it. It all has a nice soothing feel to it. I don't personally think the harmonies are terrible and a lot of folks wouldn't take this much notice to it, but you did post in a critique area and these guys are mixers and they notice this stuff. I thought the reverbs were a little much but then if you compare it to music from the time period that this sounds like it emulates, it's a close match. I would back off some though. The song construction and the words are really pretty good....so I would look at cleaning up some of the mush from those harmonies and back off the verb slightly...hope this helps!
     

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    #9
    cpkoch
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/26 11:23:37 (permalink)
    Starise
    FWIW I also attribute the lack of response at times to lack of attendance over the summer...of course we have our regulars, but people drift in and out off and on and admittedly some people don't listen to others music and only post their own. 

    You are most kind to take the time to comment.  Thank you so very much.  I really appreciate it!

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    #10
    bapu
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/26 12:00:52 (permalink)
    Starise
    There are some flaws as I see it to the whole system. People are naturally more prone to commend someone elses music if they received a great comment from that individual or are in a circle of friends with them. 



    You may well have a good point there.
    #11
    Ruben
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/26 12:45:40 (permalink)
    I hadn't listened before now - just haven't had the time to listen to too many tunes in the songs forum lately.
     
    As musicians, we all know that most of the time we put all our effort and heart into our music and hope to share that music with others, but folks on forums don't always have the time or may have other things going on, so don't stress yourself about offending faceless people in the Internet. If you don't get responses it's more likely than not that no one was able to get to it, rather than anyone being offended. Besides, there are always plenty of people in the Web who are looking to be offended, and it's not very productive to worry about them.  
     
    That said, I just listened to Green Door. That's a fun old 50s' song and you did a nice remake, with a good job on the piano. Sounds like you are a baritone? If I was producing you, I'd have recommended a higher key, if you could do that. Also harmony parts in a higher inversion. I think the comment above about removing the effects and doing the parts on your natural voice would have made the harmonies sound better. You could have also considered vocal "ahs" or "oohs" to add variety instead of vocal harmonies following the lead vocal through the whole song.
     
    Similar vocal comments for The Wayward Wind. I've always liked that song - I remember hearing and liking Gogi Grant's version from when I was a kid. But again, I think you should let your natural voice do most of the lead with harmonies used sparingly.
     
    Good work!   
     
        

      
    #12
    cpkoch
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/26 13:34:10 (permalink)
    Thank you Ruben.  By the way, I am not an instrumentalist ... nor, for that matter, a musician in the classic sense so I buy backing tracks or download Karaoke tunes from YT.   The track I used in Green Door was in the Shakin' Stevens style.  I think it's in the Jerry Lee Lewis style isn't it? 

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    #13
    Ruben
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/26 13:59:43 (permalink)
    cpkoch
    Thank you Ruben.  By the way, I am not an instrumentalist ... nor, for that matter, a musician in the classic sense so I buy backing tracks or download Karaoke tunes from YT.   The track I used in Green Door was in the Shakin' Stevens style.  I think it's in the Jerry Lee Lewis style isn't it? 



    Yeah, it's similar to Jerry Lee. So you're solely a vocalist?

      
    #14
    RussjWhite
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/26 20:52:33 (permalink)
    I do try and listen and comment on a lot of the tracks that are up here. I think like most people you kinda pick the ones that are at the top of the list. I also go for ones with no comments too, Which is why I jumped in on yours. I'm not an expert, been mixing for 6 months, but I have pretty good ears. I'll judge from my own tastes, my own opinions of what makes a good mix. I'll say what I hear to be right or wrong. Don't always know how to fix things.  like most people on here I'll do my bit to help, cuz what comes around goes around. :)
     
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    The Band19
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/27 20:47:26 (permalink)
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Posts/80260?forumid=27
     
    Psst... Here's a hint? You've commented on one song as far as I know? "Rainfall" which is an excellent tune (good choice) however, made many posts? It takes weeks to make a good song, or months? But it only takes a couple of minutes to listen to one by someone else? Who took weeks, or months to do the same thing? So yeah, you should share the love man. Some post and listen/comment? Some only listen/comment, and some only post... Choose to be one of the better choices. (Just my opinion, not meant to be offensive in any way, merely an observation and commentary)

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    bapu
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/27 20:56:24 (permalink)
    The Band19
    But it only takes a couple of minutes to listen to one by someone else? Who took weeks, or months to do the same thing? 

    Unless it's not as good as the last one?
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    #17
    The Band19
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/27 21:32:18 (permalink)
    I'm sorry BAPU, you've done some really great Tull covers (which I've commented on?) I thought the last one was sub par, but you should be thankful that you can get an honest review? Or at least a review? (at all?) Otherwise, it's a message board and not a forum (again IMO)
     
    I call um the way I see/hear um... But at least I call um? I may comment positively, I may comment with suggestions, but I try to comment. On your song I didn't want to go in to my nits because I didn't want to offend. It just wasn't as good as the others (IMO) There were more details, but again, I did not want to say anything which could have been interpreted as harsh or offensive. What's so funny about peace love and understanding?
    post edited by The Band19 - 2014/07/27 21:42:23

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    #18
    Larry Jones
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    Re: Did I Offend Someone? 2014/07/28 02:25:44 (permalink)
    I can only add a "plus 1" on the Melodyne comments. I don't know if you can transpose a vocal that far -- it just sounds mechanical to me. But I think you have a good voice and I suspect you could sing those harmonies live, maybe as suggested earlier in a higher inversion, or using "oohs" or something.

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