Helpful ReplyProbably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but...

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mrpippy2
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2014/07/22 21:46:14 (permalink)

Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but...

So in the past I've just used AD as a simple instrument track, not bothered with the routing of individual tracks, and bounced the MIDI track down to a single stereo audio track.  I decided that I might like some more control over the individual pieces, so when inserting AD on my latest project I selected "MIDI Source" and "All Synth Audio Outputs: Mono", as Dan Gonzalez recommended in the blog.  I then selected the output routing button on each of the AD "tracks" in the AD GUI.  As expected, I'm able to program the drums on the single MIDI track, and I can see/hear the appropriate pieces playing through their respective tracks in Sonar.  What I can't seem to do though, is RECORD the individual pieces to their associated tracks.  I thought I would just select the MIDI data, hit "Bounce to Track", and presto, each individual drum would now be it's own audio track.  But when I select "Bounce to Track", Sonar tells me that I haven't selected any audio.  I've done this hundreds of times using a simple instrument track, so I'm sure it's something simple I'm missing or forgetting, but any help would be much appreciated!

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stickman393
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/22 22:33:19 (permalink)
Mr Pip, I'll experiment with this issue later this evening, and report back.
 
In the meantime, here is the link to the excellent blog post describing how to set up Addictive Drums with separate outs:
http://blog.cakewalk.com/...-your-addictive-drums/
 
Not that you need it - it sounds like you're already there.
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stickman393
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/22 22:39:09 (permalink)
It seems to work for me if I select (mark the track) the MIDI driver track plus the individual audio out, and select "Bounce to Track".
 
I'd have to repeat this for each of the audio output tracks, though.
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dlion16
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 00:12:31 (permalink)
you have to explicitly select the midi track and all the audio tracks. i usually just solo them to be sure. then bounce to tracks. sonar should, but does not, make the connection automatically for you.

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 03:36:48 (permalink)
I'm not sure why you would want to bounce to audio, but you could also just freeze the synth.
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mrpippy2
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 09:55:22 (permalink)
Interesting...  Did a little messing around, and freezing the MIDI track did what I wanted, i.e. created individual audio tracks of all the different kit pieces.  A few issues/questions though:
 
1)  When I selected the MIDI track and all the (still empty) audio tracks, and then selected "Bounce to Track", I was required to select a single destination track.  I don't want a single destination track; I want multiple tracks each containing the audio for a single kit piece (like it does when i freeze the MIDI track).  Any way to bounce a single MIDI track to multiple tracks, or is Freeze the correct way to do this?
 
2)  I don't really know what I expected when I selected "All Synth Outputs: Mono" on the synth insert page, but I'm only getting a Kick L track, a Snare R track, a HH L track, an Xtra R track, etc.  Most of what I've read says to select All Synth Outputs: Mono, but I'm wondering if I should be selecting Stereo. Am I missing tracks that should be receiving audio information?
 
3)  I am getting both a Left and Right track for Master, Overhead, Room, and Bus.  I'm getting no audio frozen to the Master tracks, and audio frozen only to the Overhead L, Room R, and Bus R tracks.  Overhead R, Room L, and Bus L tracks (and both Masters) are completely void of any audio after freezing.  Is this normal, or should I be doing additional routing within AD?
 
Thanks for taking the time to help out an AD (and audio routing) newbie!

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scook
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 10:04:39 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mrpippy2 2014/07/23 19:12:58
In the "Bounce to Track(s)" dialog change the "Source Category" to Tracks
 
The signal from AD needs to be routed to the audio tracks. There is a down arrow at the bottom of each track strip on the AD mixer which assigns the audio to separate tracks. If this is the original version of AD refer to page 14 in the Addictive Drums Manual for detailed instructions.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 10:06:01 (permalink)
May I ask again why you're bouncing in the first place? We may be solving problems that are irrelevant to what you actually want to do?
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scook
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 10:13:11 (permalink)
Whether bouncing or freezing, the audio routing would still need to be setup correctly.
 
There are users which prefer to bounce (and archive) rather than freeze. The explanation I have read involved accidentally thawing tracks after editing the audio. This cannot happen with bounced tracks. It is true, frozen tracks can be copied to new audio tracks to prevent accidental thawing but it may be more work than bouncing.
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dlion16
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 10:45:55 (permalink)
i've found that i don't need to bounce ad2 unless i have a really dense project with lotsa fx and plugs. i make all my adjustments in ad2 and the audio tracks as i'm mixing, then i export audible. as long as i hear what i expect, i've saved a step.

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scook
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 11:03:53 (permalink)
Depending on hardware, only rendering at export may be an option. It still may be a good idea to render all tracks as part of a project archiving strategy, the synth may be unavailable at some point in the future. So unless the project is never going to be revisited, when tracks are rendered to audio is a workflow choice.
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stickman393
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 13:01:59 (permalink)
Mr Pip, read the blog post I linked to, to make sure you are doing the necessary steps to get all possible audio output tracks available.
Secondly, although it takes several iterations, you can bounce each individual audio output to a new, separately rendered track by selecting each output, plus the MIDI "driver" track, in turn; and selecting bounce to tracks. Make sure you follow scook's advice and chose the "source category" of "Tracks".
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scook
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 13:15:27 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby mrpippy2 2014/07/23 19:13:13
I forgot to mention, in addition to setting the "Source Category" to Tracks make sure the "Channel Format" is set to Mono in the "Bounce to Track(s)" dialog.
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mrpippy2
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 14:43:00 (permalink)
Thank you all for your help!  I tend to bounce to audio fairly in the recording process as I only have 4 GB of RAM and like as few plugin synths as possible if they're no longer necessary.  Yes, I know I need more RAM...
 
Stickman, that is a helpful blog post for sure!  I had read that before trying all this out, and had my settings just as Dan recommended.  His post doesn't have anything to do with rendering the audio to the tracks created when you insert AD, however.  But I did re-read it to make sure I'm getting all the audio tracks I should be getting.  Thanks for the link!
 
Scook, your suggestions did the trick.  I had already selected the output down arrows in AD, but hadn't changed "Source Category" or "Channel Format" from their defaults.  I now have each kit piece's audio rendered to it's own track.  Sonar actually created 16 NEW audio tracks to render to; I expected it to automatically render to the audio tracks created when I inserted AD (which are actually Simple Instrument tracks and not audio tracks, according to the track icon).  It appears I can accomplish that using the Destination track dropdown, but maybe I want the new tracks? 
 
Couple other observations:  1) No big deal, but I didn't have the option to undo the bounce.  In the past, when I bounce a single synth MIDI track to it's own audio track, I could always undo.
                                         2)  The sound I get from AD BEFORE selecting the output arrows compared to AFTER is a night and day difference.  Clearly the compression and eq-ing that AD performs is not sent to the audio tracks in Sonar.  The sound from the Sonar tracks is dull and lifeless, whereas in AD (before selecting the arrows) it is full and punchy.  Is this to be expected? 
 
Thanks again, everyone!
 
 

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scook
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 15:11:41 (permalink)
Bounce does create new audio tracks. Freeze will create the audio in the existing tracks.
 
Undo should work, try typing Ctrl-Z. I did notice a name problem with the undo level in the menu. When first displayed, it read "Undo Paste" but was altered to the correct "Undo Mixdown" when displaying the menu a second time. Either way, the immediate undo level should roll back the new audio tracks.
 
I do not use AD but any synth should sound the same after bounce as before except for variation purposefully introduced by the synth.
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Guitarpima
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 15:22:30 (permalink)
After I've written my midi track, I use a cal file to split each note to it's own midi track. I find it easier and get more control over the individual drum pieces this way. You can edit midi information much easier this way rather than every piece on the same midi track.

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mrpippy2
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/23 19:25:48 (permalink)
scook
 
I do not use AD but any synth should sound the same after bounce as before except for variation purposefully introduced by the synth.




That has usually been my experience.  However, the sound from AD changes the instant I select the output button at the bottom of the AD channel strip, BEFORE I render it to audio.  It seems like as soon as the audio is sent to Sonar, it bypasses the internal AD compression and eq.  Can anyone who uses AD confirm?
 
BTW Scook, I marked your above responses as helpful.  Even though you don't use AD, you've really helped me understand some things better here, and I appreciate it!

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Sanderxpander
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Re: Probably a silly question about Addictive Drums, but... 2014/07/24 04:52:34 (permalink)
You mean when you change the output from going to AD's master output to its individual out in Sonar?
Sounds like there are some fx on AD's master bus (compression and EQ, likely).
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