Helpful ReplyTrying to Love Z3TA+ 2

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TomHelvey
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2014/07/24 02:50:05 (permalink)

Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2

I've been using Z3TA+ for a couple of years now. I've bought all kinds of preset packs for it, downloaded a couple good free ones (Muz3uM), and spent a lot of time learning how to use it. Every song I've done over the last couple years has at least one Z3TA+ in it. But...
 
For almost every preset I've created or used, low end is generated (hot around 20-40Hz) that just tends to muddy up the bottom without a serious low pass filter on the channel. Even with more oscillators, it never really sounds as full, smooth or friendly as a Sylenth. Stabs don't seem to translate very well, if you want serious attack you have to do the 4 octave curve on an EG routed to the osc levels trick. Saws seem to have a negative DC offset when used for bass. It also has a weird octave issue, in a lot of cases middle C sounds an octave lower than it should, I always have to transpose parts to get them to sound right (a lot of the bass patches don't sound right if you go much below middle C, flatulence). The noise oscillator doesn't seem to have enough high end. Feedback (ala Massive) would be nice. How about a programmable gater? Without categories and tags, patches are pretty difficult to locate. If you're looking for a specific sound you kind of have to memorize all the presets you have installed to come close, yeah there is an ad hoc directory structure for most libraries but it's not the same. 3rd party preset libraries are a bit hit and miss, most of the ones available are a bit dated. Sorry if this sounds crass but... Mutant, meh, how about something more generally usable? Maybe I'm too mainstream but how about a Calvin Harris bank?
 
I probably suck as a sound designer and don't know the tool well enough, but I've never quite been able to get exactly what I've wanted from Z3TA+. That being said, Z3TA+ is still my go-to synth for most things but I find myself going to Predator, Sylenth, Omnisphere, Massive and Virus for more and more of my sounds these days. I like Z3TA+ but I think it needs a little polish and a few sonic improvements.
Thanks!
Note: Z3TA+ in post refers to Z3TA+ 2
 
post edited by TomHelvey - 2014/07/24 11:41:44

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#1
AT
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2014/07/24 11:33:18 (permalink)
Have you tried Z3TA 2?

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gswitz
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2014/07/24 13:40:55 (permalink)
You sound more knowledgeable than I.
Have you tried syntorial?

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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chad
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2014/07/24 14:05:14 (permalink)
Within the z3ta+ 2 options what Precision and Real-Time/Offline Quality settings are you using?  These can really change the sound output while working with z3ta+.  I usually run Precision as high as my session will take, offline quality is always 2xOversampling (especially for any patches that modulation the waveshapers). 
 
Also as far as low end and EQ make sure you use the EQ/Amp Simulator on the Effects page. There are even Simulator impulses that completely remove all low end.  There has to be a nice balance within this section to get you close to the sound you are looking for.
 
 
#4
dubdisciple
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2014/07/24 15:22:02 (permalink)
I typically chalk up my lack of killer patches as my own ineptitude at programming them.  I'm a novice in that area.  I think pop celebrity like Harris might help move a few copies but who knows if he is a great sound deisgner.  many of the biggest names in pop music often use presets or have others design patches for them.  
 
+1 to syntorial.  They offer several free tutorials using z3ta to design contemporary sounds by current, trendy artists that sound very good.
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kitekrazy
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2014/07/27 15:19:33 (permalink)
You can buy one from groove3, there are free ones on youtube.  I've bought 3rd party patches and found them to be an injustice. They were made for the 1st version and not modified for the new one.  They're extremely loud even with the limiter on. 
#6
PH68
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2014/08/23 17:34:42 (permalink)
z3ta+ (and now z3ta+2) along with Rapture have been my go-to synths for years.
Both easy to work with, particularly given the amount of presets available.
I find only slight adjustments/edits to a preset is all that's needed to get the sound I need.
 
Why not get the z3ta video from the Cakewalk shop, if I remember rightly it's pretty cheap at the moment... I know the Rapture and DimPro videos are almost as-good-as free.

~ Cakewalk ~ Arturia ~ Waves ~ Overloud ~ Windows ~
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TomHelvey
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2 2014/08/25 00:56:05 (permalink)
I just finished going through the Syntorial course, it took around a month to get through it all. I also went through all the Z3TA+ lessons, I have a much better handle on Z3TA+ now. Thanks for the recommendation.
BTW, I found the gater, it's in the arpeggiator section (it was in the last lesson). :)
 

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2:43AM
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2 2014/10/24 08:28:16 (permalink)
TomHelvey
I just finished going through the Syntorial course...



Hey Tom, can you elaborate a little bit on how Syntorial may or may not have helped you?  Having gone through the entire program/course, perhaps you can lend a little feedback, not only on Z3TA+2 but also sound design in general.  Do you find yourself building better patches now from scratch?  Did it make you "good enough" to parse out a sound from an artist's album and design it yourself maybe with 75% accuracy?
#9
TomHelvey
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2 2014/10/28 22:49:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby jonboper 2014/11/06 14:15:09
2:43AM
Hey Tom, can you elaborate a little bit on how Syntorial may or may not have helped you?  Having gone through the entire program/course, perhaps you can lend a little feedback, not only on Z3TA+2 but also sound design in general.  Do you find yourself building better patches now from scratch?  Did it make you "good enough" to parse out a sound from an artist's album and design it yourself maybe with 75% accuracy?



Sure. I would say my ear is a lot better tuned for hearing different sound attributes and knowing which knob to reach for. I can say it's a lot easier to dissect the sounds on recordings and get pretty close. So yeah, at least 75%. One thing to remember is that there are a lot of sounds that are made from patches on 2 or more different synths. It's a lot easier to find those sounds when you can describe the parts. I find myself listening to songs on the radio now and thinking that's a bunch of detuned saws with such and such filter envelope and a delayed LFO routed to oscillator pitch, etc.
 
I think to start with, you want to get good on one synth, Z3TA+2 isn't a bad place to start. After you know what you're doing on one, try a couple more, get Sylenth or Massive and learn how to make the same sounds on them. Once you've got the subtractive and routing stuff down, you can pretty much apply it to any synth. Most synths have their own sounds and unique features, different oscillators, filters, envelopes, etc. even though the basics are the same. You're not going to get wave shaping like Z3TA+2 on a Sylenth or Massive, but you're also not going to be able to duplicate Sylenth multi-voice oscillators or Massive wave table position morphing very well on Z3TA+2. You can also only get so far with subtractive synthesizers, you're still going to need good wavetable sampler like Kontakt or Dimension Pro, drums too.
 
You can also get a lot of mileage out of post-processing using EQ, compressors, sidechaining, filters, etc. Something that starts out as a grand piano can morph into something completely different that would be hard to recognize as a piano. Post processing can get as involved as creating a patch.
 
For me, most of the time it's easier and faster to start with an init patch than it is to hunt through all the presets to find something close. Some stuff takes minutes, some stuff still takes days, sometimes you don't realize how close your patch is until you listen to it the next morning. :)
 
It's instructive to download stems and listen to them, Calvin Harris made the stems for 'We Found Love' available on his SoundCloud for a while. When you solo them, the parts are easy to figure out and give you a glimpse into how to put things together to get TheSound(tm). More often than not it's a combination of a bunch of stuff that fits together nicely that makes the track. The eureka moment is when you discover the Fender Rhodes on 'Stairway to Heaven'. :)
 
 
post edited by TomHelvey - 2014/10/29 02:34:36

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jonboper
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Re: Trying to Love Z3TA+ 2 2014/11/06 14:28:00 (permalink)
Great advice Tom...Z3TA+2's routing is not completely intuitive for someone approaching it for the first time.  I just watched the Advanced Tutorial video that's being included with Sonar 3 Producer at the moment and found it really enlightening even though, like you, I'd been using instances of the synth all over the place - and probably not at optimal settings.

http://smaltmine.bandcamp.com/
https://booleanoperators.bandcamp.com/
 
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