Piano Roll has Drum map selected-- but i dont want it!

I spend a great deal of time in piano roll editing. Perhaps 90% of the time, in fact.
For some reason, MIDI tracks are automatically assigned to Drum map. That is the vertical piano is gone from the left side and its replaced with the drum sound names. I don't want this. Editing sucks and changing velocity sucks and mass deleting sucks etc etc. 
 
I want good old piano roll back for these tracks, but I cant figure it out. Google AND the manual didn't help either.
Strange, that its only on drum tracks from my fantom xr.

Its not a VST synth. Its a physical MIDI output leading to a physical MIDI device. The only output selection is FANTOM XR MIDI.
I have it setup with Banks for MIDI program change.

Sounds like you have that particular midi port and/or midi channel pointing to a drum map or patch in the "instrument definitions" section of midi preferences.

That would be my bet.  I know that with the old Wincake and Pro Audio software...the instrument definitions is what pointed the software to what instrument list to use...including drums, depending on what midi port and or channel you were working with.  Also...if you chose a drum instrument definition...it would only show "diamonds" instead of midi notes...no durations shown.
 
Edited to add:
And those same instrument definitions work with Sonar X1,X2 and X3.  I copied my old master.ins and inst.ins (if I remember the names correctly) from my old systems over to the new ones each time I built a new DAW.

Ok, resurrecting an old thread because I'm getting annoyed-er!
...And at tiny dots too!
 
I would like to disable "drum grid/map" editing in PRV and only ever edit in PRV. For some reason, I can only see this on my MIDI tracks that have drum sounds setup as Instrument Definitions.
Many reasons for this, but mostly, the Drum Grid Diamonds are too small and I just hate hate hate them.
Any solution for this?

Thanks for the reply.
Unfortunately, "Show Durations in Drum Grid" is greyed out and I cannot select it.

Happens on all song, past, present and future.
if its a drum patch-- as defined by Instrument Definitions-- its diamonds. Otherwise its normal PRV.
Strangely, this is fine on my Proteus 2000 with instrument definitions also containing drum patches.

Haha. Very funny.
 
Then i'll have thousands of patches in my Fantom XR neatly labelled and organized from 000-9999
Or I could just downgrade to Sonar 8.5!!
What is happening is that Sonar somehow sniffs that this is a drum patch, therefore force PRV to drum grid always.

Thanks for the help!
Show/Hide Track pane (checked)
Show/Hide Controller Pane (checked)
Show Vertial Gridlines (checked)
 
Nothing in any of the 3 boxes in Drum Map Manager

This ^
 
So I assume Show/Hide Drum Pane is unticked...
 
Make sure you are on Dorchester.
 
Try this...
Under screensets tick "revert current screenset"
Also try creating a brand new screenset.
 
 
 
Also try this:
http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/Knowledge-Base/2007013315/SONAR-X3-Full-VST-Rescan-Recommended-for-Upgraders
 
Another thing to do is create a bundle file and extract that project from the bundle file. It might clear something.
 

((thanks for trying, gents))
@stevec - yes, happens on all midi channels, but ONLY on drum kits
@Doktor Avalanche - Show/Hide drum pane puts a blank space above piano. I cant do anything inside of that blank piano. if I click it, it pops up "Fantom XR" and and goes away when I click it?? This is weird, because I've SEEN the drum names where the piano keys were now, but I cant figure out how to get them back as a test now.
Yup, on Dorchester.
Revert does nothing, create new one does nothing.
 
@MarioD - I appreciate your troubleshooting but its slightly faulty. I've start each new project with a template of 25 tracks, most of which are midi. I have many external midi modules, but only use the proteus and fantom via .INS definitions, and the Fantom is the only place the drum grid happens (on the Proteus there are kits, and I can use them as expected with PRV).  I've been making songs with cakewalk for years, basically using these same .INS files the whole time, and this has only come up in the last couple years, as drum grid was introduced. Its also not the Fantom, as this is happening inside of cakewalk.
 
I still feel like the problem is with the .INS files and Sonar. Sonar is forcing drum tracks to be Drum Grid for some reason.

The drum map reference in the thread title is a bit of a red herring. I would suggest that you are working not with a drum map but via the hardware instrument definition.
 
On hardware synths this is hard wired into the instrument definitions and assignment via channel 10, or any other channel assigned to drum sounds I guess. I think this may have been fixed as "a bug" at some point although I can find no reference to that anywhere.
 
The only way I know of that you'll get to see notes as opposed to the diamond is to use this as a work round.
 

1. Make sure that the track bank/patch change is set to the kit on the hardware synth you wish to use (this makes it a little easier as you can still read the kit names at this point but isn't essential)
2. Change the ins assignment on your hardware port channel 10 (or whatever channel you are using) from the Fantom's rhythm sets to something else via the Instrument assignment panel - I use "Generic Patches 0 - 127" - (At this stage the diamonds in the PRV should become notes but the key pane will be showing piano notes instead of drum names)
3. Now in the PRV right click over the key pane and select "Use these note names" from the "Note Names" selection dialogue and then select the relevant Fantom kit which should be available for selection in the drop down.
4. Click "OK"

 
You should now see the drum kit piece names in the key pane and notes in the note pane.
 
HTH

I'm tempted to say that you can't but you've got me to thinking that there must be something within the INS files that indicates to Sonar that it is a drum patch.
 
I use a lot of hardware synths/devices, 5 in total, and all of those with drum sounds selected default to the diamond display. It's not channel related because as soon as I assign a channel to a drum bank the PRV switches from notes to diamonds. Even one of the drum machines that I use will do that on any channel even though the machine itself only responds to channel 10.
 
Forget softsynth drums they are a different kettle of fish, hence my su****ion that whatever causes the diamonds to display is within the INS file or possibly a MIDI response from the synth itself. I don't use a Fantom but do have a Roland Sonic Cell.
 
Does the Fantom have all its drum patches on separate banks or are banks mixed? i.e. instruments and drum kits within the same bank?
 
Just had a brainwave and I'm going to have a mess around with this before I post......
 
 
 
Ok..... several minutes of messing around later....I think I may have a very neat solution/work round...or should I say this works for the Sonic Cell, but it does involve ins file edits. I have no idea how familiar you are with ins file editing so I'll describe it move by move rather than in general terms. 
 

1. Open prefs--->Instrument definitions
2. Find your Fantom's port and channel assignment that you want to see this "note only" behaviour on, presumably channel 10
3. Highlight the instrument def file in the right hand "Uses Instrument" pane and click "Define"
4. In the "Define Instruments & Names" window, left hand pane, expand the tree for the Fantom Rhythm sets (or whatever it is called).
5. Under that tree expand the "Patch Names for Banks" tree.
6. You should at this stage see something like *=General MIDI, FantomBankChangeNumber=Fantom Rhythm sets, AnotherFantomBankChangeNumber=GM Rhythm  Sets.
7. Switch attention to the right hand pane and expand the "Patch Names" tree
8. Locate your Fantom Rhythm Sets in the list and drag drop it across to the left hand pane and drop it on the "Patch names for Banks" under the Fantom definition (the one we've just opened previously in step 5/6)
9. When asked for the Bank Number leave it at "-1"
10. Back to the left hand pane and you should now see *=General MIDI has been replaced by *=Fantom Rhythm sets
11. Expand this tree and the "Note Names for Patches" tree within it. You should see *=Diatonic
12. Attention back to the right hand panel, collapse the "Patch Names" tree and expand the "Note Names" tree. Within this you should find the fantom's note definitions with the note number to drum sounds assignments. On my Sonic Cell they have the relevant patch number and name in the title which makes the next bit easy, if yours aren't you'll maybe need to refer to the Fantom MIDI manual for which names go to which patch number.
13. Drag & drop patch ones note names across from the right hand panel to the left hand panel onto the "Note Names for Patches" tree opened in step 11.
14. When asked for patch number enter 0, (assuming patch count starts at zero rather than one on the Fantom)
15. Repeat this for all the relevant kit note names obviously entering the correct patch number each time.
16. Once finished it might be a good idea to export this file as a new INS definition should you ever wish to switch back to the original (undoing the changes is very quick - redoing them not so quick). Right click over the definition file in the right hand window to do that.
17. Close the "Define Instruments & Names" and okay out of preferences

 
Now back to the MIDI track, select the Fantom's Rhythm  set bank, now once that's done you can select "None" as the Bank, all of your patches should be there for selection (as defined by *=Fantom Rhythm sets in steps 8 & 9). Furthermore when you open the PRV you should see notes in the note pane and drum names in the key pane.
 
The only problem I can see with this method is that if you wish to use standard MIDI kits (on the Fantom) with notes instead of diamonds. You can do this but you first need to select the "MIDI bank" and then "None" in the track's bank select drop down. However, you'll end up with the wrong patch and kit piece names because we've overridden the default GM file with the Fantom's. Not sure how much of an issue that will be but as far as I can see that's as good as it's going to get I'm afraid
 
HTH.