Midi channel switches/changes (solved but not really. Feature request?)

Author
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 4125
  • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
  • Location: Terra 3
  • Status: offline
2014/08/18 20:22:23 (permalink)

Midi channel switches/changes (solved but not really. Feature request?)

I was watching the Groove 3 video series on midi and orchestration and was intrigued by the midi channel switching. He used Miroslav Philharmonik and loaded the different articulations, of a single instrument, onto the different channels.
 
He mentioned something in Logic where you can assign a note to change the midi channel. Can this be done in Sonar. I use X2 to do all the grunt work and then when everything is nearly done, I move it to X3.
 
My other question is when you make a channel change, does it stay the same until you make another one?
 
I'm not sure I'm asking this properly as I've only done it the one channel way. I wrote this string quartet and would like to make all the articulation/channel changes to make it sound correct.
 
I could probably muddle through but any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
post edited by Guitarpima - 2014/08/21 21:49:23

Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
 
 Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    John
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 30467
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/18 22:03:09 (permalink)
    You can insert a Channel change via the List View though I do not recommend that What I do is use a different track. A track for me is the same as a channel sort of. The widget in the Inspector handles all channel data for me. 
     
    Usually a key switch can be done on the fly and you shouldn't need to preload the articulation. Often key switched articulations are marked as such when you load the samples.  

    Best
    John
    #2
    Guitarpima
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4125
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
    • Location: Terra 3
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/19 12:38:56 (permalink)
    Thanks for the reply John. I should have mentioned that I'll be using Miroslav as well.
     
    If I enter the channel change in the note properties does it stay the same until I enter another change in the next note where I need the change? Or, as you say, is listing it in the event viewer, or inserting the channel change, the best way?
     
    I appreciate the help.

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
     Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
    #3
    John
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 30467
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/19 12:53:42 (permalink)
    If I understand you yes it would stay until you put in another one. 

    Best
    John
    #4
    Guitarpima
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4125
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
    • Location: Terra 3
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 17:01:24 (permalink)
    I appreciate the help John.
     
    I could not figure out how to make midi channel changes using the inspector. I can make them but I can't make them change when I want them to.
     
    I can make the changes in the note properties but this will drive me insane if I can't figure out how to make changes to more than one note at a time.

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
     Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
    #5
    Anderton
    Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 14070
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 18:41:30 (permalink)
    Sonarians often set up drum maps to do keyswitching and/or channel switching, because you can remap input notes to any output note, channel, or port. You can even do velocity offsets and velocity scaling, if appropriate. You only have to go through the hassle of setting up a drum map for your instrument once, and then it's ready to go.
     
    Drum Maps are kind of a prehistoric Sonar feature...I haven't used them for this application, but quite a few users have commented on their suitability for this purpose.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #6
    Guitarpima
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4125
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
    • Location: Terra 3
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 20:40:52 (permalink)
    Does this mean I have to put notes below where the notes are played but they just trigger channel changes?

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
     Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
    #7
    John
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 30467
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 21:35:05 (permalink)
    Guitarpima
    Does this mean I have to put notes below where the notes are played but they just trigger channel changes?


    I was talking about how I do things not how you would. The Inspector can deal with only one channel at a time. You set it there and it will stay on that channel. The Event view is for inserting changes over time. 
     
    Craig mentioned Drum Maps for doing this but I think that might be over kill. Drum Maps are very flexible and would work but you can do the same thing within the Event View. The Event View has a column for channels all you need to do is change that. However. you would need to change all the notes you want on a different channel.
     
    I would split the track and put the new channel into a different track. Each track would be its own channel.   

    Best
    John
    #8
    Guitarpima
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4125
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
    • Location: Terra 3
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 21:54:48 (permalink)
    I was looking at the DM manager and I think putting the appropriate clips on their own tracks according to channels would be faster. It seems weird to me that you can't make the changes within the tracks instead of having many tracks for one part. At any rate, it was a learning experience.
     
    On second thought, it seems ludicrous that you can't do it. Imaging having to have up to 8 midi tracks for one part if you write for an orchestra? Hundreds of midi tracks. Crazy!

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
     Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
    #9
    Guitarpima
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4125
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
    • Location: Terra 3
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 22:00:06 (permalink)
    BTW - Thanks for the input!

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
     Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
    #10
    sock monkey
    Max Output Level: -80 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 547
    • Joined: 2011/11/06 12:12:08
    • Location: Tree Top Studios
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 22:12:06 (permalink)
    For the millions of years I've used MIDI it was always a case of assigning a channel to a given instrument in the "band". 16 Channels was always way more than I ever used. 
    Now an orchestra is a different kettle of fish, but I believe what folks do is open a VST that has 16 channel capability ( TTS_1) and build a "section"  in there. Need more channels? insert a second TTS-1 or another Soft Synth. There's  only the limitation of your hardware at this point. 
     
    To do what you want I would set up all the tracks that are needed, each with it's own channel Assign their outputs to the soft synth. Then simply cut /paste the parts as you cruise through the song to the correct track ( channel)  
     

    Cakelab - Sonar X3e Studio   
    Singer Songwriter, Solo Performer, Acoustic Duo and semi pro Sound Monkey.   
      
    #11
    rkl122
    Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 262
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 22:27:20
    • Location: NJ
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 23:04:12 (permalink)
    Guitarpima
    .............
     
    On second thought, it seems ludicrous that you can't do it. Imaging having to have up to 8 midi tracks for one part if you write for an orchestra? Hundreds of midi tracks. Crazy!

    You can select whatever notes you want in the PRV and their channel can be changed in one shot with the event inspector.  No need to futz with the event view for that.


    You guys know this, but to clarify, "channel" is an event attribute.  It's a nibble of each channel specific event byte (of which note-on is one type).  The channel-out setting for the track will override the channel attributes within the track.  I think of the track's channel-out as a re-channelizer.  So if you really want multi channeled events in one track, no problem, just set the track's output channel to none.  Each note event will then transmit over the channel coded into it. 
     
    For note insertion, the channel attribute will be whatever is set in the event inspector.  Of course you can't change that unless at least one note is selected, so changing it will change the currently selected note(s) as well.  Depending on your process, this can be inconvenient - as implied by advice given earlier in the thread.  (BTW, if you happen to have had several notes on different channels selected - the event inspector will show blank for channel, as expected - and looks to me like the next note inserted will be given the channel of the last note selected previously, whether or not it is selected at moment of insertion.)  But if your process permits you to insert first and channelize later, should be pretty straightforward.
     
    Key switch recording to change synth configurations is perhaps a more complex proposition, but hopefully made simpler with the above basics in mind.  The input midi port should be set to omni.
     
    HTH someone.  -Ron

    i7/920 2.67GHz, 8G DDR3, Win7 Pro, MAudio AP 2496 (PCI), Mackie VLZ 1204, Kurzweil PC2X, Sonar Platinum, 10 fingers, anatomically correct/functionally recalcitrant.
    #12
    John
    Forum Host
    • Total Posts : 30467
    • Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/21 23:06:17 (permalink)
    Guitarpima
    I was looking at the DM manager and I think putting the appropriate clips on their own tracks according to channels would be faster. It seems weird to me that you can't make the changes within the tracks instead of having many tracks for one part. At any rate, it was a learning experience.
     
    On second thought, it seems ludicrous that you can't do it. Imaging having to have up to 8 midi tracks for one part if you write for an orchestra? Hundreds of midi tracks. Crazy!


    It maybe that way now with soft synths but MIDI was created for hardware synths. The Port was the basic point that excepted channels. More than one port equals more MIDI channels. The old Sound Blaster had 2 synths for a total of 32 MIDI channels.  My Roland Sound Canvas has 4 synths with 4 ports.
     
    When we use Sonar with soft synths we may not be all that aware of the history of MIDI and why it has the specifications it has or the limitations. With Sonar however its easy to over come some of these limitations by adding another instance of a synth. You are using a multi out synth  that can except many channels of MIDI. Each channel should be looked at as a track.  It makes using Sonar so much easier.  
     
     
     

    Best
    John
    #13
    Guitarpima
    Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
    • Total Posts : 4125
    • Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
    • Location: Terra 3
    • Status: offline
    Re: Midi channel switches/changes 2014/08/22 00:32:16 (permalink)
    Just an update. It took less time to create the midi tracks and assign each it's own channel and then just split the tracks as I went. If I remember correctly, I can view them all at once in the PRV and edit the lengths and other stuff. I just finished the first part  and only have 3 more to go.
     
    My first experience with midi was with the MC500mkII which IIRC, was a Roland product. It was the early 90s and back then the RD1000 was new. I never thought it sounded like a real piano so I mixed it with a string sound from another synth, an M1r IIRC, and then I thought it sounded like a real piano. Those were fun times.

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
     Win 7 x64  X2  Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3  ASUS ATI EAH5750  650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb  DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
    #14
    Jump to:
    © 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1