dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 16:36:55
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IMHO xhtml, css and basic javascript are the minimim for designing all but the most basic static sites. I think if your site has dynamic content some formf server side scripting language is also very beneficial. A compromise is using a CMS that handles most of your scripting needs and has plenty of add-ons for most functions. Thanks to CSS you can still make it look anyway you want.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 17:00:45
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I've been plotting and scheming this for quite a few years and really it's kind of intended to be more like a book than a website so no need for dynamic stuff (in fact most of this actually WAS going to be a book and may still be one day but I don't feel like self publishing due to expense or getting boned by an established publisher as always happens for new, unknown writers). Just text, links and a few images. I'm hoping the absolute bare bones, no fluff approach will actually be part of the appeal of the site. It's also gonna end up being huge too so I have to consider bandwidth and server space (gotta keep overhead low). If I want to get fancier later I'd just create new sections and only apply the weirdness there or figure out a way to rebuild it based on the original content.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 17:04:50
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Oh but yeah... there will eventually need to be something to gather up user input but that's a long way off and I just learned how to create all the various html user input forms. That's good enough for me. I'll just need to learn, as you said, the server side stuff which apparently is provided by many hosts already but even still I'll be going with Linux based so I'll use whatever free program handles that (I forget which one it is... MySQL?).
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 17:19:02
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MySQL is awesome and works very well with PHP. Easy toblearn as well. I think sharke's suggestion to just use a div tag to create an ad class will work for your needs.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 17:38:08
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So now I'm trying to remember (I watched a whole series of tuts on web server/management stuff a while back). Apache is the actual server software, MySQL is the database software and PHP is the FTP software? Right? I know there are many others but those are the ones that come with Ubuntu Server and are free/don't have usage fees... right? I'll be rewatching everything again and taking notes next time (as I build everything). First go arounds for stuff have been more about making sure I could actually understand it all (or if I was too stupid to get it) and whether I could actually DO it all with what limited resources I have. Thank goodness for epicly clever fellows on youtube and elsewhere on the internet willing to share their knowledge. I shudder to think how many classroom hours I would have had to endure and tuition fees I would have had to pay to get to this point.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 17:40:14
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hmm... the PHP assumption feels wrong. Well why the heck don't I just google it. lol
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 17:46:06
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PHP is actually the scripting language. It is the code that woild provide communication to server and database. Say for instance you wanted to ask user input and then write material to thebpagen based on that input. PHP isnone of the scripting langauges you could use.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 18:03:25
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Ah, yes. I remember now. Thanks.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/08/31 18:05:31
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Peachpitbpress makes a good, affordable book on using php and mysql together
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 13:57:52
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dubdisciple Peachpitbpress makes a good, affordable book on using php and mysql together
Thanks. Got NP++ up now and testing some things out. CSS is gonna take a heck of a lot more memory work and fiddling than HTML but at least it seems to be working. One thing that is going to be sooooper helpful for me is the "pre" tag which is HTML but nicely manipulated by CSS. I'm also going to try to stick to HTML5 protocol I think. I'd like to maybe use some of its A/V features even it might bork out on older browsers but I'll always provide an alternative of some kind. That's gonna take some scheming.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 14:20:48
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Like sharke said, don't worry about older browsers too much. You may be surprised at how well they respond. Several browsers made efforts to be standards based years ago but web developers kept using the same techniques and hacks anyway. So, some already had the ability to use modern coding processes long before it became the norm. For those with even more ancient browsers, they probably have bigger problems than your site not working like the fact their computer is dreadfully slow and vulnerable to malware.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 14:39:13
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Well fortunately all the reference sites I'm using (well mainly the W3schools one...) show the supported tags for different versions and what major browsers support them. I've also found some neat tools to test code with and just today learned about "shivs" and "polyfill" stuff so the page can default to older methods of doing things. I wasn't planning on keeping fancier stuff like video/audio on the server but it's nice it is there and is giving me ideas. I also like the idea that with HTML5 for DOCTYPE I don't have to screwaround with all the different kinds. It looks to be backwards compatible for the most part anyway so no biggie. The only real annoying thing to me at the moment is learning the CSS stuff. It is way more complicated to me than the old tags BUT I can see the benefit because I only have to apply it once instead of on every instance where that type of thing is needed... so yeah... it's worth it. I just wish they could have figured out a way to base the CSS code on the old tags wherever possible instead of changing everything. Notepad++ is really cool though. Very helpful.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 14:43:31
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The problem with basing css on old tags is that the old tags were never designed for a gralhic heavy web. HTML was invented when the internet was text based. All of the additions were designed to be workarounds. Even earlier versions of css fell short on predicting the direction the web would take. Hang in there. Soon css will be second nature
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 17:41:09
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Well after poking at this all day it all seems to be doing what I need it too (so far). The unfortunate part is the HTML is wicked easy and surprisingly I'm able to do a lot just from memory... the CSS though I have to look almost everything up even when I know the right basic code because it doesn't seem to work the same way when doing different things. Like when using id's apparently I have to create a whole new set of instructions for every change even if it is the same element I'm screwing with. For example I have to open a new set of curly brackets to change a font then another to change the weight then another to change the color etc... as opposed to just writing one long set of instructions like I can do with a regular element like paragraphs. Kind of weird. I'm sure there is a reason but it's confusing. It doesn't help the words used aren't quite as logical to me and I REALLY have to pay attention to how it is all set up or it won't work/will do something funky. :-/ I'll get it though. Heck... today was just my first day and I built a page with all the basic elements I need, including some pretty complicated content that is tricky to format even in notepad, so I guess I'm doing alright.
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sharke
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 18:00:00
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Beepster Like when using id's apparently I have to create a whole new set of instructions for every change even if it is the same element I'm screwing with. For example I have to open a new set of curly brackets to change a font then another to change the weight then another to change the color etc... as opposed to just writing one long set of instructions like I can do with a regular element like paragraphs.
That doesn't sound right. For any CSS rule, you can state as many parameters you like between the curly brackets, as long as they're separated by semicolons, for instance: #share_index { position: absolute; height: auto; width: 470px; top: 465px;} Be careful not to confuse ID's with classes. ID's should only be used to identify a unique element that is only used once on the page, whereas classes are used when you want to stylize a group of elements in a certain way. Post what you're trying to do in terms of code and we can put you on the right track for sure.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 18:12:19
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I've actually closed it all up for the day and am making dinner so maybe tomorrow. I think after I really rip apart the difference between class and id I'll be able to handle it better. I tried using class but it wasn't working right. I needed to learn id anyway and it does apply to what I was doing though. However the specific thing I was doing was trying to change the anchor/link behavior for a specific section. The coding just doesn't work out right the way it needs to be done (the way it needs to be written "logically" just doesn't fit right... like the "a" after the id just doesn't fall anywhere it should). After some digging I found the supposed correct way to do it and it specifically stated you have to do stuff like that one at a time (the info may have been faulty though... it is the internet). Sure enough it worked but yeah... seemed weird. It should be noted I am currently working on an internal CSS code at the top of the actual page until I get the hang of it. Not on another page or wrapped around the actual element (the latter apparently needing to be formed a completely OTHER way... lol). I think my brain was just frying out on it.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 18:14:34
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Oh and what you wrote was pretty much how I was doing it but I'm not sure what that share-index thing is. I just named the div around the element then pointed the CSS to that with the # sign, the name then the set of instructions. No worky.
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sharke
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 18:34:14
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That CSS rule I posted was just an example from my own site - the "share-index" is the name I gave to a particular section of the page. It's also worth remembering that you can use multiple classes on a single element. You just separate them with spaces in the attribute, for example: <p class ="class1 class2 class3">BLAH BLAH</p> And then in the CSS you would have .class1 {some rules} .class2 {some rules} .class3 {some rules} ...etc. If you feel like posting the link to the document you were reading later then by all means do so...might be a good idea to nip any problems or confusions in the bud at this early stage. CSS is one of those things that is confusing at first but once you've gotten the basic idea down it's plain sailing from there (a little like Jamstix).....
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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Splat
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 18:48:20
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I use dotnetnuke and have been for some time. I can get most requirements up in a day (for shopping carts add an extra day and an extra day for troubleshooting such as compliance). It kicks the crap out of wordpress and is pretty fast and modular.
If you are into MS technologies such as IIS and SQL server it is a no brainer.
Ta
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Splat
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/01 18:48:20
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Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/03 14:23:48
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I've been meaning to reply to this but have had to do my monthly meatworld nonsense and have kind of been feeling like crap/spaced out. I'm going to review the tut I posted above but with NP++ open and work through the exercises (as well as cross reference with the W3schools guides). It does seem like the "class" CSS stuff should work but it simply didn't for what I was doing and it may be a result of the weird crap I'm trying to do. My brain is back on it (or will be tomorrow at least... I hope) and I'll post some sample code if I can't figure it out. Thing is I do really think I'm doing something bizarre that isn't exactly how most would go about designing things. Like I don't think content within the Pre tag would be screwed with the way I am doing it but it is important to functionality to me. It looks slick/clean and works well but if I can somehow make it work with Class id stuff that might make things easier. I'm getting the feeling that most people wouldn't use links within the pre tag AND screw with the link fonts AND try to code in tooltips AND move it all with relative positioning AND etc, etc... Usually that stuff is just to show code or ASCII art or whatever. Not be fully interactive. Either way I'll slam through it and I definitely appreciate the help.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/03 14:47:49
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By the way, i noticed earlier in the thread you mentioned you use the "save as HTML" feature in MS word. My advice on that is DON'T. Word processor programs often add weird code that is non-standard and even worse than the code spit out by programs like Dreamweaver. I have used Dreamweaver and even tried their lighter version (I think it's called Muse). Both have their advantages and disadvantages. The thing I like best about dreamweaver is it's management and preview capabilities. Considering Dreamweaver has an option to simply use a text editing mode, one could easily use Dreamweaver in the way you would use notepad++. I think I use notepad++ because I rarely have to manage large sites that a program like Dreamweaver would potentially lend an advantage to managing.
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sharke
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/03 14:52:21
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That's what I used Dreamweaver for, as a fancy coding environment (like Visual Studio). I tried their WYSIWYG mode once and was never happy with the results.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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dubdisciple
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/03 15:24:20
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sharke, agree for me on a personal level. I can say when I have been forced to use Dreamweaver in corp environment, I found the companies were never sticklers for using the WYSIWIG environmnet so I mostly just pasted code in from other text based code editors. I will give it credit for handling good code just fine. I'm assuming (more like hoping) it has improved since last time I used it. i don't do much web design anymore because of this: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell
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Beepster
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/03 16:21:11
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Oh... I'm not using Wordpad or any other formatting word processor stuff. I just wondered whether it was a decent workaround but as I suspected and you guys confirmed it spits out sloppy code. Notepad++ is where it's at for me right now. Very nice program.
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craigb
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Re: Dagnabbit! So now I've got to learn XHTML, Doctypes AND CSS?! UURRRGH!!!
2014/09/04 00:31:12
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Beepster Notepad++ is where it's at for me right now. Very nice program.
++1 on that one!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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