Melodyne Just Amazed Me

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Anderton
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2014/08/30 17:10:22 (permalink)

Melodyne Just Amazed Me

This is the Editor version...I don't use the polyphonic mode much, but I learned its power last night.
 
I was recording a slide guitar part where the slide had to move rapidly over five frets. On one take I hit the timing perfectly, but the slide was angled slightly so the upper and lower notes were out of tune.
 
I opened the clip in Melodyne, turned pitch correction up to max, and...ohmigod! It became perfectly in tune, while preserving the slide itself and the vibrato. Pretty amazing.

The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    konradh
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/30 17:17:31 (permalink)
    I don't know how I lived without Melodyne.  I'd rather give up cell phones.
     
    Of course, the disadvantage is that we have trained the general public to expect dead-on pitch and when they hear a singer that's a few cents off, they know something's wrong, even if they can't explain what.

    Konrad
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    #2
    pinguinotuerto
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/30 17:20:48 (permalink)
    I really need to learn how to use it properly! My experience has been a bit frustrating, but I attribute that to not putting the required time into learning it.

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    #3
    mixmkr
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/30 17:26:42 (permalink)
    it works great on female vocals to fake another harmony. 

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    #4
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/30 17:35:56 (permalink)
    That's a great use for the polyphonic mode and similar to the way I've used it to fix guitar chords. I also love the ability to delete offending notes or noises.
    #5
    Paul G
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/30 17:41:00 (permalink)
    konradh
    .... a few cents off, they know something's wrong, even if they can't explain what.

    I've been a few cents off my entire life....Oh wait!  You were talking about singers. 
     
    I've been using Melodyne since Uno came out and it worked great for tuning vocals.  Since RMA arrived it's a whole new world.
     
    Paul

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    maltastudio
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 01:13:39 (permalink)
    Vocals tuners are great help ,you record less takes,but I have to say some good singers with nice sounding voices I would never use anything with there voices it kills there natural vibrato.
    Peace

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    sharke
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 01:52:50 (permalink)
    Hmm I tried to use Editor to fix a guitar part that was recorded with a couple of the strings slightly out of tune. It did this weird smeary thing with the transients. 

    James
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    #8
    Anderton
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 03:34:48 (permalink)
    sharke
    Hmm I tried to use Editor to fix a guitar part that was recorded with a couple of the strings slightly out of tune. It did this weird smeary thing with the transients. 



    Well, there weren't any real transients. I was doing greasy distorted slide, not Nestor Ausqui on nylon-string classical guitar...
     
    Mainly it just blew me away that it could fix an "off" slide chord so easily, without killing the slide itself or the vibrato. Maybe I'm just easily amused, but that would HAVE to have been a retake before Melodyne came on the scene. 

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #9
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 04:37:14 (permalink)
    maltastudio
    Vocals tuners are great help ,you record less takes,but I have to say some good singers with nice sounding voices I would never use anything with there voices it kills there natural vibrato.
    Peace

    I've found that Melodyne handles natural vibrato really well and actually repairing pitch doesn't really affect it. In fact I would say that that is one of the criticisms of Melodyne (especially compared to V-Vocal) - it doesn't allow you to create your own vibrato or alter the recorded one very freely. You can only increase or decrease the naturally present vibrato.
    #10
    ampfixer
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 14:53:46 (permalink)
    Once you use Melodyne to fix something, do you bounce that track to another track that's "fixed" or do you have to keep the Melodyne plug running until the final mix?

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    #11
    Paul G
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 15:02:25 (permalink)
    ampfixer
    Once you use Melodyne to fix something, do you bounce that track to another track that's "fixed" or do you have to keep the Melodyne plug running until the final mix?

    I'm using Editor 2 in X2 in the FX bin in a separate track and bring in clips as needed.  Once they're edited I just import them back into the original track and move on.  I don't think you'd want to build up a series of Melodyne edited clips.  It would be too taxing on your system.
     


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    #12
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 16:11:48 (permalink)
    With X3, it's not like previous times where you had Melodyne in the FX bin and you had to freeze the bin or bounce to another track in order to fix your edits. It's more like V-Vocal where the effect is just on a clip. If you want to bounce it, you'd use bounce to clip, not bounce to track, generally. It's quicker and easier too. I tend to not bounce to clips at all, I haven't had the necessity from a CPU point of view. I have had some minor instabilities in projects with a lot of open Melodyne instances and edits. I haven't been able to really pinpoint a specific issue though. If you wanted to be very safe I suppose you could clone the track, make your edits, bounce them to clips and archive the original. I just save my project a lot with incremental version names.

    EDIT:
    I should add that, with the current ARA based workflow, it's really easy to use Melodyne just on a clip or part of a clip. You just select the part that you think is off and hit CTRL+M. Previously, it would make sense to "transfer" the entire track but that's not really necessary anymore. So it's quite easy to end up with ten "bits" of Melodyne across a lead vocal track, as opposed to one huge one. Hasn't been a CPU problem for me yet though.
    #13
    bapu
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 16:34:50 (permalink)
    Paul G
    ampfixer
    Once you use Melodyne to fix something, do you bounce that track to another track that's "fixed" or do you have to keep the Melodyne plug running until the final mix?

    I'm using Editor 2 in X2 in the FX bin in a separate track and bring in clips as needed.  Once they're edited I just import them back into the original track and move on.  I don't think you'd want to build up a series of Melodyne edited clips.  It would be too taxing on your system.
     



    Yep.
     
    ampfixer, but beware. If you have ANY fx's turned on for the Melodyned track when you bounce to clip your bounced clip *may* be louder (I also have seen the fx now in the bounced clip). This is why I do what Paul G does. Clone the track (sans any FXs). Do Melodyne edits there and replace the original clips/are with those Melodyne edits.
    #14
    S.L.I.P.
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 17:28:05 (permalink)
    Here's a really good Melodyne video; 
    Solo guitar techniques 
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9roYSersvLM
    #15
    Jimbo 88
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/08/31 23:42:45 (permalink)
    I'm starting to use Melodyne and really liking it.  I have "Essential" tho....do I need to upgrade to get the ability to use the polyphonic setting? 
     
    I'm recording a project with flute and clarinet playing together,  occasionally one will have a note out of tune. I am having trouble fixing one note due to bleed over on the mics.  I don't want to spend $300 on an upgrade option that might not do me any good.  

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    #16
    Anderton
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 03:08:43 (permalink)
    Jimbo 88
    I'm starting to use Melodyne and really liking it.  I have "Essential" tho....do I need to upgrade to get the ability to use the polyphonic setting?

     
    Yes. 
     
    I'm recording a project with flute and clarinet playing together,  occasionally one will have a note out of tune. I am having trouble fixing one note due to bleed over on the mics.  I don't want to spend $300 on an upgrade option that might not do me any good.  



    There's a 30 day free trial.
     

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    benjaminfrog
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 08:33:17 (permalink)
    I'm guessing I'm in the minority, but I have mixed feelings about Melodyne. I love it conceptually, especially the polyphonic algorithm (how mind-blowing is that?), but, when using it for pitch correction, it's rare that the results don't sound phasey to me and lack the high end the definition of the original clip.
     
    It may be that I have more to learn about how to use it effectively. I don't doubt that, but, so far, I've been able to get results with better fidelity from AutoTune in graphical mode. As an aside, I think a lot of folks have a negative view of AutoTune, because of how it's been (over) used as an effect and because of how unnatural it sounds when used in that manner. Additionally, I think a lot of people are unaware that AutoTune has a non-auto mode.
     
    One of the things I have been happily using Melodyne for recently is working out vocal harmonies and then singing along to the retuned clips when I record those parts. This way I can concentrate on matching the timing and feel, but not get distracted by the notes of the original melody. Better singers probably have no issue with this, but my voice often slips back into singing in unison with the melody, if that's the part I'm listening to when recording the harmony.
     
    Another thing I've been using it for lately is the amplitude tool. This works great for leveling out dynamic performances without the side effects of compression and without introducing the phasey artifacts I mentioned above that result from using it for pitch correction.
     
    All in all, I think Melodyne is an amazing product that does a lot (I haven't even touched the timing tool yet). I do hope, however, that in subsequent versions they will improve the audio fidelity of the pitch correction algorithm.
     
    Cheers!
    post edited by benjaminfrog - 2014/09/01 10:12:40

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    #18
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 09:13:39 (permalink)
    Plus Celemony has been offering the upgrade for just 150 to Sonar users. Email them, several of us have done this.
    #19
    blu lacez
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 10:54:33 (permalink)
    Hmmm, i have always avoided it,cuz imnot sure how to use it..lol. I even avoid V-vOCAL, LOL. However, i might start to test it.  How would you guys rate this over Antares Auto Tune?
    Any videos on tuning vocls with Melodyne?

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    #20
    scook
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 10:59:38 (permalink)
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    blu lacez
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 11:14:41 (permalink)

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    Anderton
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 11:58:12 (permalink)
    The general rule of all pitch correction software is that it works best on audio that doesn't require a lot of pitch correction. The more you need to manipulate the source material, the more you'll hear the results of that manipulation. 
     
    The degree of artifacts also depends on what you're processing. For example V-Vocal had no clue what to do with unpitched sounds like inhales. Whenever I used V-Vocal, I always made the sure the clip included only the notes and not the inhale. Melodyne is much better in this respect but still, there's no reason to "correct" something that doesn't need correction.
     
    Note that the Editor version includes a formant-altering tool, which can help considerably in creating more natural-sounding parts if you're applying a significant amount of correction.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
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    blu lacez
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/01 14:20:59 (permalink)
    Anderton
    The general rule of all pitch correction software is that it works best on audio that doesn't require a lot of pitch correction. The more you need to manipulate the source material, the more you'll hear the results of that manipulation. 
     
    The degree of artifacts also depends on what you're processing. For example V-Vocal had no clue what to do with unpitched sounds like inhales. Whenever I used V-Vocal, I always made the sure the clip included only the notes and not the inhale. Melodyne is much better in this respect but still, there's no reason to "correct" something that doesn't need correction.
     
    Note that the Editor version includes a formant-altering tool, which can help considerably in creating more natural-sounding parts if you're applying a significant amount of correction.

    Spot on as usual, Craig!!

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    #24
    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/02 09:32:25 (permalink)
    Melodyne Editor (ME) is an amazing tool. I've been using ME for some time now.   Used properly, it's an essential part of my workflow.
     
    I agree... the closer to "right" the note is to start, the better ME will do in correcting it. In fact, with most notes it is totally transparent and leaves NO artifacts in it's wake.  I have used it to create a female harmony from a female lead/unison melody line and it was pretty freaking amazing.  ( First female harmony part in my song "Coming Home" on my music page)
     
    I have used it in poly mode a few times. Mostly I do try to avoid needing it in that mode. I used it to remove some wrong notes from a chord in a wave sent to me by another musician......it worked fine.  Efforts to stretch notes in poly or change notes more than a step are not as successful as I would have liked. I often resort to plan B when that occurs, whatever that might happen to be at the moment.  I have used it a few times to fix chords and it does a respectable job, as Anderton mentioned, of being able to fix that errant note in the chord without screwing everything else up.  It can easily move the entire chord as well and the listener will not be able to detect that it wasn't right to begin with. I used it to fix some mandolin on a song and it worked well.
     
    When I do my pitch correction, I do not let ME run in the autocorrect mode. I have been using the manual mode for some time and tend to like it better. I make the call on a note, not the algorithm. When I finish with a section I save the project and move to the next section taking it phrase by phrase mostly using ME on vocals. Once the track is finished..... I simply use the APPLY AUDIO FX function and ME gets printed to the track and the plug is removed from the bin.  I don't let ME set in a bin doing the processing, I convert it to audio.  My reasoning is that I don't need the out of tune vocal track once it's been fixed by ME.
     
    ME is much deeper that what I use it for and has capabilities that I haven't even explored much beyond watching the tutorial videos. If I have a need for those functions, I can watch the video and experiment.
     
    All in all, ME is a tool that I would not want to be without.

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    #25
    Sanderxpander
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/02 10:19:56 (permalink)
    Are you on X2? I am really surprised that so many people are using Melodyne in the bin instead of on clips. That's about the best part, for me.
    #26
    konradh
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/02 11:11:54 (permalink)
    For what it's worth, I find Melodyne almost as useful for time correction as for pitch.  I never quantize automatically with Meldoyne, but I slide notes around a little 1-to match doubling or harmonies match up and 2-to fix things like a rushy singer.  (I also fix pitch note by note by hand instead of automatically.)
     
    Melodyne is a life-changing tool.

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    #27
    blu lacez
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/02 13:49:12 (permalink)
    Thanks for the great tips folks! Looks like Melodyne, will gets lots of attention from me. Thanks again folks.

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    #28
    greg54
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/02 19:09:49 (permalink)
    I started another thread about Melodyne, but maybe someone here can help.
    I just opened it up for the first time with X3 today.     I highlighted the vocal strip, clicked on Region FX, then clicked on Melodyne.
    But a box with a photo of a guy comes up that either allows me to click on the manual or watch a video.    But I can't get rid of that box, and while it's up it won't let me use Melodyne.   Anyone else experience this?
     
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    #29
    Anderton
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    Re: Melodyne Just Amazed Me 2014/09/02 19:32:08 (permalink)
    greg54
    I started another thread about Melodyne, but maybe someone here can help.
    I just opened it up for the first time with X3 today.     I highlighted the vocal strip, clicked on Region FX, then clicked on Melodyne.
    But a box with a photo of a guy comes up that either allows me to click on the manual or watch a video.    But I can't get rid of that box, and while it's up it won't let me use Melodyne.   Anyone else experience this?
     
    Greg




    There's some "don't show this again" option somewhere. Not at the computer now but will be booting Sonar later, if there's no answer by then I'll provide one. It's probably worth watching the video, though.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #30
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