Changing Default send level.

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sausy1981
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2014/09/06 13:47:59 (permalink)

Changing Default send level.

Hi guys, does anyone know if you can change the default send level. I would find it easier if I inserted a send and it was turned all the way down. It would be easier when adding a reverb, for example while your track is playing and you feel like a guitar needs some reverb just insert the send and you can start to bring the send level up, rather than inserting a send and having to turn down the send level before turning it up again.
Thanks
Andrew
#1

21 Replies Related Threads

    John
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/06 16:02:34 (permalink)
    It sounds to me to be 6 in one hand half dozen in the other. Either way you still need to adjust the send level. 
     
    I don't know of a way to change the default send level. 

    Best
    John
    #2
    Anderton
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/06 17:34:07 (permalink)
    The Send Assistant has an option to "Match Track's Pan and Gain." I suppose Cakewalk could add another check box for "insert with zero send level" if enough people considered it really important.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #3
    sausy1981
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 10:26:42 (permalink)
    I know it seems strange request but for the way I work it would be great, When I'm doing a mix I will have the chorus on repeat, and I'll be changing my listening perspective to different things and if I feel an instrument needs a bit of verb I would like to insert the send while the track is playing and start to bring the send level up gradually to where I want it to be, As it is, if I insert the send while the track is playing I will have too much verb on the track, I have to quickly turn the send level down then start the process of bringing in the send level, but that intial burst of verb can be slightly off putting. It's a minor minor issue, was just wondering if it was possible. Thanks Guys.
    #4
    iTiDav
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 11:10:14 (permalink)
    Hello gyus,
    sausy1981
    I know it seems strange request but for the way I work it would be great, When I'm doing a mix I will have the chorus on repeat, and I'll be changing my listening perspective to different things and if I feel an instrument needs a bit of verb I would like to insert the send while the track is playing and start to bring the send level up gradually to where I want it to be, As it is, if I insert the send while the track is playing I will have too much verb on the track, I have to quickly turn the send level down then start the process of bringing in the send level, but that intial burst of verb can be slightly off putting. It's a minor minor issue, was just wondering if it was possible. Thanks Guys.



    The same thing for me, so vote +1 :)
    #5
    sharke
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 11:23:52 (permalink)
    I guess every control in Sonar could potentially have a default value option - but if they did, the number of available options would quickly get out of hand. So they have to make decisions on what can and can't be customized. I can't see them creating a default send level option, but I agree the default unity level is nearly always too much when you turn it on while playing. I doubt they would set it to zero as default as you'd want to give the listener some kind of audible feedback when a send is activated. I'd be happy with a compromise whereby it was set to -6.0 or something like that. 

    James
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    #6
    Anderton
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 11:31:06 (permalink)
    If the send level came on at 0, I wonder how many forum threads would have the title "Sonar BUG!! Sends are broken!!" 

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #7
    scook
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 11:47:35 (permalink)
    Until the feature is added, to avoid the scramble to adjust send volume:
    0) Create a bus in the project template, output set to none.
     
    1) When adding new sends or buses always add them to the bus created in #0
    2) Turn down the send level
    3) Reassign the send to the real send
    4) Bring up the send level
     
     
    #8
    Anderton
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 11:56:17 (permalink)
    Or...
     
    1. Press stop.
    2. Insert bus, turn down send volume.
    3. Press Play.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #9
    scook
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 12:05:04 (permalink)
    You would have to be very fast to not notice the abrupt volume change. A volume change which may be more disturbing than the original problem.
    #10
    Anderton
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 13:15:34 (permalink)
    But if the transport's stopped, there won't be any audio.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #11
    scook
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 13:16:01 (permalink)
    exactly
    #12
    Anderton
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 14:19:26 (permalink)
    I think the main issue is that the OP says this is a problem if he inserts while the track is playing. I don't understand why it's crucial to insert the send while the track is playing, so I think the simplest workaround is to stop the transport, insert the send, and turn the send level down prior to starting again. This might actually be faster than my previous comment about having a check box in send assistant where you could choose a default level for the bus you're inserting.
     
    The absolute fastest method would be to have a global preference so any time you inserted a send its send level would default to a user-specified level. This sounds like a good candidate for a feature request once that process opens up again, but meanwhile, I'm trying to think of the fastest workaround.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #13
    scook
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 14:44:57 (permalink)
    Anderton
    I think the main issue is that the OP says this is a problem if he inserts while the track is playing. I don't understand why it's crucial to insert the send while the track is playing

    I agree
     
    Anderton
     
    so I think the simplest workaround is to stop the transport, insert the send, and turn the send level down prior to starting again. This might actually be faster than my previous comment about having a check box in send assistant where you could choose a default level for the bus you're inserting.
     

    This would create an even larger change in volume. I was trying to offer a solution which involved no change in volume while inserting a send. To that end, #8 was the simplest solution I could think of that allowed a send to be added while the transport was running.
     
    #14
    Anderton
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 14:52:57 (permalink)
    I'm clearly missing something. I don't understand how there could be a large change in volume if you stop the transport and the next time audio plays back, it's the same but with a send level turned down to zero.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #15
    scook
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 15:16:32 (permalink)
    When the transport stops the DAW goes from playing something to playing nothing. There may be a considerable change in volume. So to starting the transport may result in an equally large change in volume.
     
    My understanding of the exercise was - how to add a send while transport was running without affecting the volume.
    post edited by scook - 2014/09/07 15:34:40
    #16
    John
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 17:09:36 (permalink)
    I have never tried to insert a send while playing back or recording. Its just not something I would do. Nor do I understand the requirement.  

    Best
    John
    #17
    Anderton
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/07 20:28:02 (permalink)
    scook
    When the transport stops the DAW goes from playing something to playing nothing. There may be a considerable change in volume. So to starting the transport may result in an equally large change in volume.
     
    My understanding of the exercise was - how to add a send while transport was running without affecting the volume.

     
    I see the disconnect. My understanding was that it was about not having a volume jump caused by the send level going to an effect at full send level. I did realize he wanted to be able to do this while the transport was running, but I assumed he would prioritize having the send come in at 0 over having to keep the transport going. Your method does indeed let him keep the transport going, so then I guess the issue now becomes whether he prioritizes keeping the transport going, or taking less time to add the "send at 0 level" send. Either way, he has an option.

    The first 3 books in "The Musician's Guide to Home Recording" series are available from Hal Leonard and http://www.reverb.com. Listen to my music on http://www.YouTube.com/thecraiganderton, and visit http://www.craiganderton.com. Thanks!
    #18
    sausy1981
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/08 16:09:20 (permalink)
    Hi guys thanks for all the replies, Maybe it's just something relevant to my work flow, I do a lot of my mixing with most or all instruments playing, while looping on a particular section of the song, I bring each instrument in one by one and mix them in, Sometimes I like to get ambiance effects in early, so I'll have my busses set up with my effects on, So when I bring an instrument in and I feel like it needs some ambiance I can add it on the fly, And just like you would with a track fader, Bring it UP to the desired level, rather then have the initial burst of the effect when the send level is at 0, as I said I find that off putting and I can kind of lose perspective. It really is only a question about something that could have helped my workflow, as of now I stop playback, insert send, turn down, and resume playback and bring send level up. It kind of disrupts my on the fly mixing. Anyway, it's no biggie guys, I've survived up until now, Thanks for all you help,
    Andrew
    #19
    sock monkey
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/08 23:02:25 (permalink)
    hey it bugs me big time... here's why
     
    Client finished with vocal track and wants to hear playback. Because this is the 5th take you have had to insert new audio tracks which are bare bones. Clients like to always hear their voice with some reverb ( why is this?) 
    To save time, start playback and while they are listening you insert the send and immediately are bombarded with way to much reverb. Client jumps from their chair and spills coffee./ beer.  
    I agree that the default send level is always way to much. Has anyone ever, ever used it at that level which seems to be 3 o'clock? 
    Just turn the default down to 9-10 o'clock where it usually ends up in my mixes. X4 wish list. 
     
     ya I know --use a track template, But why should we have to edit every setting.  It was like the old record setting in 8.5 defaulted to sound on sound??? who on earth would use that? 

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    #20
    Larry Jones
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/11 23:05:52 (permalink)
    I get the OP's point. You want to add reverb while the track is playing. On a hardware console you reach for the aux send that is already connected to a reverb device and fade it up. In Sonar, you can do Craig's thing, stopping the transport and adding a reverb send and setting it to zero before pressing Play, but that disrupts the flow. Really, it seems to me that any new send you create should default to zero, but especially reverb sends. I don't work with clients any more, but I can picture their reaction if I periodically blasted the room with way too much reverb (sock monkey's scenario).
     
    So my vote would be for new sends to start at zero. If we were voting.

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    #21
    worstcaseontario
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    Re: Changing Default send level. 2014/09/12 03:32:46 (permalink)
     I think we're voting. I would want (and sort of expect) sends to be inserted into playing tracks to start at zero.

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