slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5289
- Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
- Status: offline
Whither the SFZ spec?
Cakwalk used to host the "official" SFC 1.0 opcode list at: http://www.cakewalk.com/DevXchange/sfz.asp That link now re-directs to the Cakewalk Blog which, if it still hosts it seems to be pretty much unsearchable. Anyone know where this stuff is now?
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/07 20:29:07
(permalink)
Yeah, I had the same problem and asked what the deal was. Apparently it didn't make it over during some operation. They're aware of it, but not sure when it will get fixed.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/07 20:44:56
(permalink)
|
slartabartfast
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5289
- Joined: 2005/10/30 01:38:34
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/07 20:58:08
(permalink)
Thanks Skook and Mr. Peabody. This original link/reference appears in a gazillion sites as the official repository for the SFZ format. I should have learned by now that I, like the Wayback machine, should never delete anything or depend on the web as a reference. If Cakewalk ever does resuscitate the page, it would be a very nice addition to note which of the opcodes are supported in the various synths that Cakewalk distributes.
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 00:30:58
(permalink)
You could try: http://www.sfzformat.com/ Which seems to have the content as it used to appear on the Cakewalk site - don't know if it is current or not, but it is at least there. :) Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 01:16:01
(permalink)
robert_e_bone You could try: http://www.sfzformat.com/ Which seems to have the content as it used to appear on the Cakewalk site - don't know if it is current or not, but it is at least there. :)
Thank you!!!!!!!!
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 01:16:18
(permalink)
robert_e_bone You could try: http://www.sfzformat.com/ Which seems to have the content as it used to appear on the Cakewalk site - don't know if it is current or not, but it is at least there. :)
Thank you!!!!!!!!
|
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2685
- Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
- Location: Montreal
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 09:38:07
(permalink)
EDIT : (oops, got CAL and SFZ crossed) [As I was saying] I've seen no suggestion that Cakewalk plans any future support of sfz or sfz-based instruments. The most up-to-date spec (not sure what this means) is the unofficial appendix found in : “Cakewalk Synthesizers: From Presets to Power User – 2nd Edition” by Simon Cann Since there is no 'standards committee' for sfz and companies that still support it now do what they want with it, who knows which opcodes work and which don't.
post edited by Paul P - 2014/09/08 12:35:42
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 11:40:56
(permalink)
Paul P I recently posted some links in this message I've seen no suggestion that Cakewalk plans any future support of sfz or sfz-based instruments. CAL Links? The future of CAL has been repeatedly commented on by Cakewalk. To the OP, missing pages on the Cakewalk site may be reported here http://www.cakewalk.com/About/Email/1
|
Keni
Max Output Level: -17.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5769
- Joined: 2003/11/04 10:42:15
- Location: Willits, CA USA
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 11:52:06
(permalink)
|
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2685
- Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
- Location: Montreal
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 12:52:29
(permalink)
scook CAL Links?
Thanks for bringing this to my attention Getting back to sfz, do we know if anything from Cakewalk supports the 2.0 version that appears in Cann's book ? A quick search of these forums only brings up a lot of confusion about this.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 13:22:56
(permalink)
Thanks, Keni - that was a nicely put together page on the SFZ spec, as well. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 14:22:35
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby robert_e_bone 2014/09/08 14:18:34
One advantage of the SFZ spec (other than not being proprietary) is its flexibility, and the ability to make decisions about whether you want to "bake" parameter values into the SFZ script or not. For example, you can script an attack time into an SFZ script, but if you're loading it into Dimension Pro or Rapture, it's easier just to adjust the attack control on the UI's envelope generator. When creating Expansion Packs, my scripts basically involve key placement and maybe a few tweaks like having a fixed sample offset, or loading multiple layers as a single SFZ file so only one element is needed. The instruments take care of the rest. Instruments like Garritan's and Plogue's bring out many parameters to the UI so you don't have to do lots of scripting with them, either.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 14:29:19
(permalink)
Paul P Getting back to sfz, do we know if anything from Cakewalk supports the 2.0 version that appears in Cann's book ?
The SFZ Player supported 1.0. Subsequent instruments, including Dimension Pro and Rapture (and I think Session Drummer as well) support SFZ 2.0. Whether they support all elements of SFZ 2.0 I don't know, because as has been mentioned, manufacturers can choose to support whatever aspects they want...same as with VST 3 or MIDI.
|
Keni
Max Output Level: -17.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5769
- Joined: 2003/11/04 10:42:15
- Location: Willits, CA USA
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 14:53:25
(permalink)
robert_e_bone Thanks, Keni - that was a nicely put together page on the SFZ spec, as well. Bob Bone
Hi Bob... I'm glad I could help. I remember struggling through some of this to learn how to make some changes to some sfz files I was using in Session Drummer... A bit daunting to the average musician who's not also computer savvy to that level, but a needed tool in many situations... Keni
|
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2685
- Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
- Location: Montreal
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 15:26:48
(permalink)
Anderton Subsequent instruments, including Dimension Pro and Rapture (and I think Session Drummer as well) support SFZ 2.0. Whether they support all elements of SFZ 2.0 I don't know, because as has been mentioned, manufacturers can choose to support whatever aspects they want...same as with VST 3 or MIDI.
So we have a programming language that has no official specification and interpreter/instrument implementations that may or my not handle the various opcodes, and may even invent some of their own. Not the most appealing programming environnement. I'll (with regret) limit myself to the basic stuff that has a chance of working.
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/08 16:03:06
(permalink)
Paul P So we have a programming language that has no official specification Like MIDI it does have a specification (SFZ 2.0), but is not an official standard - companies can modify it if they want. Unfortunately I am not aware of any standards committee that has the SFZ spec on its docket. Remember, back in the dawn of time itself, when dinosaurs ruled the earth, SFZ was intended simply as a better option than Sound Fonts and DLS when moving audio files and mappings from one environment to another. The extra opcodes are a bonus. According to Patch Arena, Plogue's Sforzando handles all Dim Pro supported opcodes. If you design something for Dim Pro, it should work in Sforzando. Camel Audio's Alchemy and Alchemy Player recognize the 'region' and 'group' headers and various opcodes (sample, pitch_keycenter, lokey, hikey, key, lovel, hivel, loop_mode, cutoff, fil_veltrack, default_path, volume, tune, pan, seq_position, trigger, sw_last). Those are the main needed upcodes anyway. If you design for that minimum set, your file will play back as expected in the common SFZ players (assuming the file paths are correct). For those reading this who are curious about SFZ files, here's a link to an article I wrote in Keyboard magazine that covers the basics.
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/09 09:32:44
(permalink)
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|
Paul P
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2685
- Joined: 2012/12/08 17:15:47
- Location: Montreal
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/09 09:40:55
(permalink)
robert_e_bone Here is a link to both the SFZ 1 and 2 specifications: http://ariaengine.com/overview/sfz-format/
The link to the SFZ 1 spec is broken (it's Cakewalk's). The link to the SFZ 2 spec is just a link to Cann's book. Here's a link to a thread in which Chad graceously makes available a test suite for SFZ version 2 (originally "sfz v2 test suite 1" produced by René Ceballos, creator of certain cakewalk synths) If you are archeologically inclined, and you have to be if you're interested in sfz, the Wayback Machine is a great tool. Searching ancient cakewalk forum posts is also very useful as René was a frequent participant.
post edited by Paul P - 2014/09/09 09:47:06
Sonar Platinum [2017.10], Win7U x64 sp1, Xeon E5-1620 3.6 GHz, Asus P9X79WS, 16 GB ECC, 128gb SSD, HD7950, Mackie Blackjack
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/09 10:10:45
(permalink)
Paul P If you are archeologically inclined, and you have to be if you're interested in sfz, the Wayback Machine is a great tool. Searching ancient cakewalk forum posts is also very useful as René was a frequent participant.
Here's a more contemporary forum. Not super-active, but not dead either. Here's an archive of the forum that was moved to ariaengine.com, it has lots of useful reference material. SFZ has actually had a resurgence of late owing to its use in the ARIA engine, as well as the relatively recent introduction of players from Camel Audio, Garritan, and Plogue. However I doubt you'll see much push on the spec itself. It does what it does, and doesn't make any money for anyone, so there are no resources to push it. At least for me, though, it remains the fastest way to map a bunch of wav samples across a keyboard and make noises.
|
robert_e_bone
Moderator
- Total Posts : 8968
- Joined: 2007/12/26 22:09:28
- Location: Palatine, IL
- Status: offline
Re: Whither the SFZ spec?
2014/09/09 11:09:09
(permalink)
I think it is a quite useful format - it IS great for creating playable mappings of samples that are freely available on the web. Bob Bone
Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!" Sonar: Platinum (x64), X3 (x64) Audio Interfaces: AudioBox 1818VSL, Steinberg UR-22 Computers: 1) i7-2600 k, 32 GB RAM, Windows 8.1 Pro x64 & 2) AMD A-10 7850 32 GB RAM Windows 10 Pro x64 Soft Synths: NI Komplete 8 Ultimate, Arturia V Collection, many others MIDI Controllers: M-Audio Axiom Pro 61, Keystation 88es Settings: 24-Bit, Sample Rate 48k, ASIO Buffer Size 128, Total Round Trip Latency 9.7 ms
|