Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix

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Trevor M.
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2014/09/11 03:57:16 (permalink)

Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix

I'm enjoying the trial version very much so far but as for the mod-matrix there are a few things I just haven't figured out yet...
 
For example: I want to control the attack time of an envelope with my mod-wheel but you can't choose any of the envelope parameters as destinations.
 
Do you guys know any way to get this working apart from just use midi learn (maybe with those functions 1-4)?
 
 
 
post edited by Trevor M. - 2014/09/11 04:09:41
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    b rock
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    Re: Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix 2014/09/11 20:29:01 (permalink)
    Do you guys know any way to get this working apart from just use midi learn (maybe with those functions 1-4)?

     
    Not that I know of.  The functions are great for routing & multiplexing parameters, but if a destination just isn't there ...  You might try pre-programming different attack characteristics over the "free" envelopes [EG 1-6], and pointing that to Main Volume or Filter destinations.  You'd have to switch among them, and probably "amplify" the effect with one of the pitch Curves.  (I just tried a few of these options that weren't completely satisfactory.)
     
    Real-time envelope control is always tricky, because it usually takes effect on the next note played (not whatever note is already in progress).  Even Dimension Pro / Rapture's hardwired Global Attack & Release [CC73 & CC72] act that way, and control the "hidden master" EG over all Elements.  Of course, Rapture has direct Matrix control over AR characteristics at the Element or global level; exactly what you're asking for in z3ta+ 2.  I get that you're after a Matrix approach, though, as that can be saved per-preset.
     
    That said, MIDI Learn isn't a bad option, as long as you remember that it's locked to any given parameter across all synth instances.  Even the parameters that don't seem to be "MIDI-Learnable" often are.  You may be interested in using Shift+right-click for MIDI Learn over the EG segment Lin-Slow-Fast curves, or the X-Y matrix under PERFORM.
     
    Hell, even the individual Source, Range, Curve, Control, and Destination slots of the Mod Matrix can be MIDI Learned.  Try Shift+right-click on any parameter that normally increments/decrements with left- and right-click.  The range of parameters can be limited to Min & Max, Reversed, or swapped out for 1 of 10 MIDI configurations.
     
    When all else fails, I fall back on MIDI Learn, or some kind of external control solution.  (A little extreme, but I've been known to use a PigTronix Philosopher King as an improvised synth ADSR.)
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    Trevor M.
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    Re: Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix 2014/09/12 02:32:59 (permalink)
    Thanks a lot, I really appreciate your post.
     
    The idea of programming different envelopes struck me as well but you would lose those as sources for other modulation tasks.
     
    So, assinging the mod-wheel directly to the parameter would be the obvious and in this case the only solution, I see.
    Well, as you said you'd have to deactivate the assignment everytime you load another patch...
    I probably should get a new midi keyboard that has some additional knobs so I could just leave those assigned.
     
    But maybe cakewalk will add some new destination options in the near future...
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    chad
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    Re: Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix 2014/09/12 12:02:49 (permalink)
    b rock
    Not that I know of.  The functions are great for routing & multiplexing parameters, but if a destination just isn't there ...  You might try pre-programming different attack characteristics over the "free" envelopes [EG 1-6], and pointing that to Main Volume or Filter destinations.  You'd have to switch among them, and probably "amplify" the effect with one of the pitch Curves.  (I just tried a few of these options that weren't completely satisfactory.)



     
    This is the technique I would have tried.  Like you said it can get you close, although not completely satisfactory. 
     
    A very good feature request for z3ta+ update or new version I think!  Modulation destinations were added in the last update, perhaps there is still room for more?  :)
     
     
    Offtopic on the guitar pedals:
     
    How do you like the Philosphers Tone?  That one has caught my eye as well.  As I've always been a fan of Dave Koltai's pedals.  Any big difference versus the Philosopher King? 
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    b rock
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    Re: Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix 2014/09/12 22:15:18 (permalink)
    These kind of "can't-do-it" problems really bug me.  I've got to say that I got a little closer.  Unfortunately, it took 4 EGs, 4 Functions, 4 "split" Mod Wheel Ranges, 8 Curves and 8 Matrix slots to even approach a passable solution.  As opposed to one MIDI slot in Rapture.  It may be quicker to put in a Feature Request and wait for an update!
     
    ---------------------
    Don't get me started on guitar pedals, Chad.   (I was in a meeting.  I owe you an extended phone call.)
     
    The Philosopher King  is miles ahead of the "Tone".  That ADSR shaping is something sorely lacking in a stomp format.  (Never had a Slow Gear, except in multi-FX, and it's more versatile & cleaner than my vintage EHX Attack Delay.)  The functionality packed into a relatively small package is deceptively deep.  The envelope shaping married to compression is the key.  Grit does have its small place; blended with other dirt in the chain.
     
    As good as Koltai's demo is, it doesn't scratch the surface.  CV In/Out, Trigger ... how about an EHX 8 Step Program controlling the Swell or Fade?!?  I could never get sounds (or the feel) out of my guitar synths like this.  Now, if you just want "tape reverse" effects (and none of them really "snap" like the real thing), let me tell you about the UltraTap algo in Eventide's H9 ...
    ---------------------
     
    Oh, did I mention that it makes a great ADSR for synth audio output?  Um, back to z3ta+2 and the subject at hand now ...
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    Trevor M.
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    Re: Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix 2014/09/13 02:49:36 (permalink)
    b rock
    These kind of "can't-do-it" problems really bug me.  I've got to say that I got a little closer.  Unfortunately, it took 4 EGs, 4 Functions, 4 "split" Mod Wheel Ranges, 8 Curves and 8 Matrix slots to even approach a passable solution...


    Damn, you really are an ambitious guy, aren't you. Nontheless this is way too much of a fiddling for such a simple task.
    I just got myself a used BCR-2000. Now I can basically assign the whole thing...
     
    Anyway, I hope that Cakewalk will release an update though. ADSR parameters as destinations isn't that exotic after all.
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    chad
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    Re: Z3TA+2 - ADSR as destination in mod-matrix 2014/09/15 09:41:31 (permalink)
    b rock
    Don't get me started on guitar pedals, Chad.



    :)  Really nice features and sound.  Okay the Philosopher King is on my watch list.
     
    Without being near z3ta+ I was trying to remember if the Compression controls were available as modulation destinations.  Now that would be interesting trying to recreate a guitar pedal style sustain with just the compression controls.  Again only MIDI learn is available but it seems as though the gain + compression/ratio could get you Attack and Sustain.  Then use maybe Reverb as Release (Verb which is available as a destination)?  Fun to consider, a different sounds versus just MIDI Learn on Attack/Release AMP Envelopes.
     
    Trevor M.
    I just got myself a used BCR-2000. Now I can basically assign the whole thing...



    Hi Trevor,
     
    You can't go wrong with a BCR-2000.  If you have any outboard MIDI gear the MIDI SYSEX editing on the BCR-2000 is extremely powerful, you can control just about anything. 
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