[Solved/Setup Tip] Focusrite VRM Box Users: How are you guys setting up the VRM w. Sonar?

Another thing I thought was a little weird is that when using SPDIF apparently it needs to be connected with USB as well. I kind of figured it would only need the SPDIF cable. Anyone know what that's all about? Just curious because I have made a lot of assumptions about how it does its job but apparently that was all wrong. I thought maybe in SPDIF mode the software was a plugin doing all the emulations from a bus and the box was just there to be a quality controlled headphone connection (and of course be used as mini interface when needed/desired). Now I'm seeing it needs to sync/lock with the interface like a DAT machine and that there may be more going on than a simple monitoring interface.
 
I should probably go trawl the FR answerbase for that type of info though on the off chance they actually explain those types of things.
 

Ah, yeah that makes sense. Cheers.

Thanks for popping in, sharke. Guess I'll figure out my flow as I go.
 
Curious... do you leave your cans plugged into it when tracking? I'll probably keep doing what I'm doing (which is using the HP out on the Scarlett) while tracking and only use the VRM for mixing sessions but I'm just wondering if it's one of those things where a bit of laziness might kick in and don't bother switching back.
 
Might give a (very brief) revisit to Beeps Creep with it as a test to see how well it helps me nail down all that stupid minutia that inevitably screws up a final mix just enough to drive one batty.
 
Cheers.

Hi, guys. First off my apologies and thanks to sharke and lawajava for their input. It's not my usual modus operandi to not acknowledge such helpful advice and insight. I've just been completely absorbed with some other time and brain power consuming adventures (oh OCD you delightfully wacky condition) that I seem to have forgotten my manners.
 
So yes indeedy, thank you for getting my noodle prepared for the VRM experience. I have finally (just today even though I posted this weeks ago) hooked the bugger up and poked around at it briefly on some material I've worked on over the past few years that I am intimately familiar with. Extraordinarily revealing to say the least and I was extremely impressed with the realism of the environments/emulations. I couldn't help but take my headphones off to ensure that I wasn't blasting the material throughout my apartment even though I knew my monitors weren't even turned on. Crazy.
 
However the other reason I am logging in and updating this is to document some issues I had getting it set up VIA SPDIF with my Scarlett 18i6. That way I can search the thread if I forget what I did and perhaps help others looking for similar answers (because really the user guide and Focusrite answerbase were unusually and woefully inadequate on this subject).
 
I guess this could be a mini version of my old "Complete Beginner's" posts from way back when. If any VRM box users, Bakers or perhaps Matt from Focusrite would like to chime in that would be awesome.
 
Hardware in play:
Computer: i7 2600k, 16GB DDR3 RAM, 2 7200RPM drives, Win7 64, Sonar X3e (all working fabulously)
Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 18i6 (which has SPDIF in/out)
Thingamabob I'm blathering about: Focusrite VRM Box (and I bought a new generic SPDIF cable along with it)
 
Unboxing: Nice little box ("that's what she said" jokes will NOT be tolerated... well maybe a little) that was ridiculously cheap to have shipped even by courier. Everything was nicely protected within the factory box so even if the shipper decided to be lunkheaded goons (as they are often prone to be) it would have taken a full on crushing with a forklift or something to do any damage. I certainly appreciated this. Inside was the unit (which I will describe later), the software/manual disc (version 1.0 which I did not use because they are up to version 1.4 and have made some significant fixes since 1.0 according to their website), a reasonably sturdy USB cable that seems to be high quality (3 foot I believe... NOTE: the device does NOT come with an SPDIF cable), a fancy velourish drawstring tote bag (I cannot guarantee that any velours were not harmed in the making of the bag but perhaps I should inquire because I certainly oppose any mistreatment of woodland creatures such as the majestic velour), a rather useless "Getting Started" guide that has pictures of how to connect some cables from the box to the computer (thanks Focusrite... that was really tripping me up) and that you need to access the CD for installation instructions (which BTW are only slightly more helpful), a registration card, a foldout with some Focusrite propoganda (they do make cool stuff so it's nice eye candy), a big packet of soup mix that didn't taste very good and made my tummy hurt (I wish companies would stick to making decent hardware and stop trying to get us to eat their crappy silica soup but hey... a free meal is a free meal) and a flat piece of foam that was equally undelicious.
 
The Box: Small and well built. It's plastic but really heavy/dense plastic. There is some weight to it and the connections are sturdy. It feels like if I whipped it against the wall it would leave a good dent in the drywall. The box may not survive but it certainly isn't a wuss of a box which I was concerned about due to the size. It's so small if it was ultra light I could see it getting dragged around by the headphone cable. It stays reasonably well put though as far as I can tell but I may put a little piece of velcro tape on the bottom and mount it on my desk or the side of my computer case. So far no need. The cheesiest part of it seems to be the volume knob that does not seem to be made of the same quality plastic as the case but it is still pretty nice and it moves fluidly and cleanly.
 
Hardware Install: The device itself is supposedly "Class Compliant" (it just works with Windows) but is obviously pointless without the emulation software (except I guess it might be useful even without the software as a soundcard replacement for just listening to tunes or doing MIDI stuff... I don't know though). So plugging it in VIA USB it was indeed immediately detected and Windows told me it was "Ready to Use" within a second. Now this may not be the case anymore, particularly with Win8, but I always try to choose a specific USB port on my computer for my USB gear and stick with it for that piece of gear whenever possible to avoid issues so as usual the VRM Box now has its own USB port on the back of my DAW and that is where it will remain. That's an old school consideration based on MIDI port limitations but I still try to do it whenever possible just in case.
 
Software Install: I never use the included CDs for anything anymore. They are always out of date and why waste time installing an older version that needs updating when you can snag the latest and greatest from most manufacturers websites? As I said the CD is labeled version 1.0. The Focusrite site has multiple updates for the VRM box, the latest of which is 1.4 (1.3 and 1.4 seem to only correct issues with Mac problems but I got the latest anyway. The last one that seemed to have pertinent fixes for Windows was 1.2 IIRC). Instead of downloading straight to the DAW like I usually do (I'm paranoid about the "Shockwave" bug now after reading some alarmist nonsense) I downloaded on another system to a flash drive, scanned, transported it to the DAW, scanned again (and made a restore point using Windows Recovery which I now always do before installing any new programs) then installed. Also on the Focusrite site downloads entry for the VRM Box is the User Guide which may have been update since the CD release because there is a notice about a potential Windows error. I did not get the same error but I did get an error that was kind of weird but honestly I forget the details. Basically it was a driver install error that didn't seem to really mean anything. I clicked through and the installation completed successfully. After that I was able to open up and view the VRM software interface. Pretty cool.
 
Making it work with Sonar VIA USB alone: Easy peasy. After all of the above all I had to do (and this is where the VRM Box' User Guide was plenty accurate) was in Sonar open up Edit > Preferences > Audio-Devices and then DESELECT all the Scarlett 18i6 inputs/outputs. You have to do this when using ASIO because when using ASIO you can only use one interface at a time and the VRM Box is actually an interface when being use via USB only (not SPDIF). If you do not deselect all the ins/outs of your main interface the VRM Box' in/out will be grayed out and you cannot select them. It should be noted that if you are using a Focusrite interface as your main interface like I am it can be quite confusing as to which ins/outs are from your main interface and which ones are the VRM Box's when just looking at the list. Well the grayed out/unselectable ones after first installing the device will be the VRM Box. So that's an easy way to tell and then you can add a "Friendly" device driver name in Sonar options if you want. From there all I had to do was open my most recent project (which just happens to be at 24bit 48khz), set the Master Bus to output to the VRM Box (which I think was the only option available on the bus output at that point) and turn up the dial on the VRM Box. Cool. As I flipped around the emulations I would get a brief moment of silence during playback. It didn't seem like a dropout or skip or anything. Just a second of silence then the music came back with the new setting applied.
 
It should be noted that a) the VRM Box will not work at anything above 24bit 48khz (you will get an error message stating the device does not support the current samplerate/bit depth) and b) if you change your Devices Preferences then close the project BEFORE changing the Master output to the VRM box you will get a "Silent Bus" message from Sonar (because the master is no longer routed to an active output).
 
THIS IS WHERE I RAN INTO TROUBLE!!!
 
SPDIF Connection (for samplerates above 48khz):  So the tl;dr of this problem is I had to open the Focusrite ScarlettMix panel, click the tabs above "Mix 1" strip (the one all the way to the right of the window) and select "SPDIF OP L" for the left channel and "SPDIF OP L" for the right channel. This (after some fiddling) I realized does not actually deselect the Mon.1 and Mon.2 options I currently had selected which outputed to my regular monitors and the headphone jack on the Scarlett (I thought it was an either/or situation which caused me a few minutes of confusion). After doing that (and of course ensuring that the SPDIF outs of the Scarlett were selected in Sonar's Edit > Preferences > Audio-Devices) I could not only listen to my mix as usual through my monitors and the headphone jack on the Scarlett but the VRM box as well. I did NOT need to have my Master bus set to SPDIF out or anything weird. It could be set to my usual outputs on the Scarlett that I have been using for years. VERY NICE!!! Now all I have to do to use the VRM Box is unplug my headphones from the Scarlett's headphone jack and plug them into the VRM Box and I'm good to good. No, seriously... VERY NOOIIIICEEEE!!!!!
 
Anyway, I was going to regale you all with the stupid crap I went through to figure that out but I'm bored of typing this now so maybe later... or never... or whatever. The point is that I thought I had to select the SPDIF outs in Edit > Preferences and change my Master bus output to the Scarlett's SPDIF. I screwed with that forever with no output. Then decided to go screw with the ScarlettMix software which being the BAD Beepster I am had never really messed with or become proficient using (because it always just worked so why bother... right?) and after much annoyance and trial and error I discovered the output selections of the Mix channel's tab and experienced great joy. I hope that anyone scouring the intertubes like I was for info on this find my diatribe helpful and to everyone else at least a little amusing/entertaining.
 
Conclusion: Good freaking lord do I love my new little VRM Box dealymabob even after only screwing around with it for a short time and crapnoodles am I ever continuing to love my Scarlett 18i6. I am not a Focusrite employee nor have I been compensated in any way to continue blathering about their products but damn is this useful stuff.
 
I do however wish they would make their manuals a little more verbose and clear. I know that I could just email them and they'd get back to me promptly (as they have in the past) but I prefer to torture myself and all of youz with my foibles. So there you have it. Look forward to some hopefully better mixes from ole Beepwad thanks to my new doodad at some point whenever I get around to it.
 
Cheers.