Warm audio tone beast tb-12: use as guitar d.i.

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Mantofini
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2014/09/14 10:47:20 (permalink)

Warm audio tone beast tb-12: use as guitar d.i.

I was hoping any tb-12 owners could provide some of their experiences using the tb-12 as a guitar d.i. I'm thinking of adding some hardware to my little home studio and was considering a pre-amp that adds a little colour. One of the common things I read about the tb-12 was that it adds some thickness or body to the recorded sound. That was usually in reference to a mic'd sound. I was wondering if that applies to d.i.'d guitars, as well.

One use I was considering for the tb-12 was to provide a fuller sound going in to amp sims in the hopes that the output of the amp sim might be a little bigger/fuller. Usually when I use amp sims I'm mostly happy with the general tone but just think they sound tiny and no amount of cabinet sim tweaking has been able to change that for me so far.

Has anybody used the tb-12 in this way before? Did it provide any noticeable difference? Am I overestimating how much of a difference a change in preamps will have on the sound? Should I just be focusing on the post processing of the amp sim instead?

If important, when I do record guitars direct, I use the instrument input on my presonus firestudio mobile. Thanks to any that comment.
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    AT
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    Re: Warm audio tone beast tb-12: use as guitar d.i. 2014/09/14 13:38:16 (permalink)
    It is easy to overstate the influence of the preamp on sound.  Nobody makes crap these days, or they have to try to.  But a good preamp, w/ transformers, does provide subtle benefits.  But it takes a system(room and ears) that can reveal them.  Most people just getting into recording either can't hear the difference, or suffer from the placebo effects (night and day - a steel curtain removed, yada yada yada).
     
    The TB is different from just about every other preamp since you have a choice of op-amps and transformers to run the signal through, as well as input and output vol.  On some signals this is very apparent, on others, invisible even in a pro studio.  You can drive the DI and the saturation and distortion is better - more analog than most software.  Basically, you can put some hair on the guitar (or bass) before it hits an amp sim.  I prefer miking a guitar amp, but on bass DI the TB works wonderfully.  If you want a thicker sound, just keep adding saturation and on into distortion if you need.  And, of course, in comparison to a transformerless unit, the TB just sounds thicker, even w/o the transformer inline (which sounds cleaner and big). 
     
    In short, the TB should add a lot to your DI recording, injecting various starter flavors to your sim, which means it needs to work less to deliver the sound you want.
     
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    Mantofini
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    Re: Warm audio tone beast tb-12: use as guitar d.i. 2014/09/14 14:44:47 (permalink)
    Hi AT,
     
    I was hoping you would reply since I read your TapeOp review and have seen your positive comments on the product throughout the forum. I'd love to be able to mic an amp instead but, these days, I'm at home taking care of my father and can't produce too much noise while he's resting.
     
    Do you mind elaborating on one of your comments. You stated it takes a high quality system to reveal the differences a good preamp can provide. One of my limitations right now is that I can't use studio monitors either, due to noise. When you say it takes a high quality system to reveal the differences, were you talking about the input side of the equation (i.e. a good recording space and high quality microphones) or the output side (i.e. good studio monitors and room treatment).
     
    I would imagine that if I am using the TB-12 as a D.I. the input side of the equation wouldn't really matter, in this case. If you are talking about the output side of the equation, I would be limited to monitoring through a set AKG K271 mk II headphones, at this point. I would imagine that the "thickness" we are talking about would be apparent on those headphones but, maybe I'm crazy.
     
    Unfortunately, I fall into the category of the early stages of getting in to recording and your opening comment has me at least thinking twice to make sure I'm spending money on something that would have very minimal impact.
     
    Thanks for the feedback.
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    AT
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    Re: Warm audio tone beast tb-12: use as guitar d.i. 2014/09/14 18:09:57 (permalink)
    Mantofini,
     
    welcome to a brave new world of recording.  And sorry to hear about your father.  Rough stuff.
     
    The main thing I wanted to say was don't expect a world of difference when you first listen to high end equipment.  If it sounds night and day and you don't have a lot of experience it is probably as much placebo as reality.  So I'd hate to have someone lay out the money and think product X doesn't sound any better than a $10 moomoo and me and my advice is a schmuck.   Like anything, it takes time to appreciate the subtleties, as well as decent enough equipment.  Your AKG's should be good enough, I would think.  It is just easier to hear stuff the better a system is, which should be no surprise.  You really pay for that last 10%.
     
    But even if you can't really hear it now, if you are serious and stick to it, you will hear a difference in high end stuff.  And of course, if you don't spend the money, you'll never hear a difference ;-)  The other thing, most of the higher end stuff is, if not a lifetime investment, a long-term one.  A good preamp (or fill in the blank) will still be working long after your bargain interface (fill in the blank) gives up the ghost - in fact through several of them.  I still use the speaker system I bought almost 40 years ago (w/ proper upkeep).  A $1000 system sounds like a $2-3000 today - still.  $25 a year for professional sound ain't bad.  So, if you have the money and are serious, I'd spend it.  It will save money in the long run and give you a chance to grow into it.
     
    Finally, the TB can have a large impact on the sound using the gain/saturation knobs.  You'll be able to hear that, even over a string and two cans.  Of course the GAP preamp has in/out that let's you crunch, too, and is a cheaper buy.  The times I've heard it, it sounded fine.  Still, there seems to be more QC issues w/ the GAP, and the TB uses better components (not to mention more of them), even tho I've never AB'ed them.  Unless you're doing rock and other heavy distortion music, you can probably get all the "air" you need using the TB and reverb, rather than an amp sim.  And personally, I've found using higher-end stuff at home let's me get the separation of instruments and lines usually found in high-end studios.  Again, that isn't instantaneous - the equipment let's you get the separation, doesn't automatically produce it.  And once you hear it you adjust your performance to take advantage of it.  It becomes a feedback loop.
     
    In short, yes I imagine a good pair of headphones would be good enough to work on tracking w/ high end equipment like the TB.  And yes, if you are serious and have the money it should make a difference in your recording.  I wouldn't starve for it or get divorced over it.  But having a nice front end if you are doing acoustic recording makes the process easier and more exciting, and should produce a significantly better end product.  Or that is what I tell myself ;-)
     
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    there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
    24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
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    Mantofini
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    Re: Warm audio tone beast tb-12: use as guitar d.i. 2014/09/15 11:40:06 (permalink)
    AT, thanks again for the reply and the sympathy re: my dad. Your replies have been helpful and full of some good perspective which is sometimes lacking in other hardware forums. If I do decide to go through with the purchase, I'll post back with some impressions.

    I had heard about the GAP pre as well but I must admit, I'm drawn to the tweakability of the tb-12. It reminds me of my amp, the egnater tweaker 15. I guess I'm drawn to devices with more features than I'll likely need. :)
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