Changing tempo in midi tracks without affecting it

Hi!
 
Here is a tough question. I recorded an electronic drum via midi but I did not know the tempo. Once I finish recording I could realize the tempo. I recorded it at 105 and it was at 60. I want to change the tempo in the song without affecting the midi track. I know this could be done with audio tracks but can it be done in midi tracks?
 
One turn around was to bounce it to audio then change the tempo but I can not modify the actual hits or make corrections that easy as midi track. Also I can bounce each part of the drum, change the tempo and then convert it to midi but it looses some feeling. 
 
Is there another way so I don't loose that feeling? 
 
Have a Great day!
 
PiBoy
 
Note: I use sonar X3 producer. 

You can try using the Process > Fit Improvisation function.
 
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X3 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX3Power
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/

Am I correct in understanding that you were capturing midi data that was being played at a different tempo than the project tempo at the time of the recording?  And now you want to adjust presumably the project tempo, but you don't want the midi data to playback any differently than the tempo is was recorded at?
 
I am pretty fuzzy on what exactly is at what speed initially, and what exactly is needing to be changed, and what exactly is needing to not be changed.  PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE explain it again for me.
 
Thanks - sorry if I am a bit dense - I would like to get it right, if I am going to try to advise you on what to do to accomplish your goals.
 
Bob Bone
 

The only thing that comes to mind, is to freeze the output of the midi track and bounce it to an audio clip. Change the tempo to the new target and the audio will still have the original tempo. The only problem is if your time was drifting during the original recording. It will likely not sync to the new tempo. Just turn on the metronome during playback an you'll know pretty quick.

Does my logic fail or could it be done simply so, that you create a new Project with the intended tempo, and drop the drum track into that. MIDI follows Project tempo?? Or maybe not.... The relative error remains (?) You can scale the MIDI somehow so that fits the bars of the intended tempo, can't you?? And when the MIDI fits the bars, you can adjust tempo anyway you like.
 
It's been so long since I've had proper MIDI sessions that I don't remember. This shouldn't be overly hard. Easier than with audio anyway, of course.
 
If the original is played without any kind of click, the biggest challenge will be the variations of the tempo. It takes more tweaking. You may get first eight bars to match the bars easily, but is that the tempo of the next eight bars?

This is something I've struggled with for years and ended up building tempo maps before I start any recording.
 
 
When you record audio, you can adjust Sonars tempo (either manually or automatically) to make the bars/beats line up with the audio.  There are many ways to do that.
But if you start by recording midi you can't.  You can quantize the midi to match the bars/beats, but you can't move the bars/beats to match the midi.
 
Its a technical thing to do with the way midi data is stored.  Sonar has to know when to play each midi note,  the "when" is stored as bar/beat/tick.  It has to be like that so that changing the tempo actually does change the tempo.
 
 

"I recorded an electronic drum via midi but I did not know the tempo."  
 
That's an interesting statement. But this is the part that confuses me- 
 
'I recorded it at 105 and it was at 60."
 
So does this mean the project tempo was set at 105 ? 
And the drums were played at 60? And how did you figure out the 60 if you did not know the tempo? 
What were you playing along too? 
 
You were right about one thing, it's a tough question to answer. 
I will wait until we hear from the OP as we are all taking shots in the dark. By now he could have re played it which is the best solution when we screw up. 

Karyn
I did read it Scott,  I just didn't understand it.
 
Yes, Fit Improv will work.

Hi Karyn... sorry about that. Yeah, Fit Improvisation has been a feature in SONAR for a long time now, but doesn't get much attention.
 
Scott

--
Scott R. Garrigus - http://garrigus.com - SONAR X3 Power! - http://garrigus.com/?SonarX3Power
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series: http://garrigus.com/?PowerBooks
* Author of the Cakewalk Sonar ProAudioTutor video tutorial series: http://garrigus.com/?ProAudioTutor
* Publisher of the DigiFreq free music technology newsletter: http://www.digifreq.com/
* Publisher of the NewTechReview free consumer technology newsletter: http://www.newtechreview.com/

PiBoy:
 
Maybe I'm missing something, but I record MIDI piano tracks without regard to the tempo, then use Set Measure/Beat at Now (SHIFT-M) to set the tempo to what was recorded.
 
It requires me to go through the MIDI piece measure-by-measure, but the resulting tempo map is very accurate when I'm done.
 
I'm sure you could do this with a MIDI drum track.  In fact, if the drum track is by machine, you probably don't have to do every measure since they probably keep a pretty consistent tempo.
 
Hope this helps,
Paul